Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies"

From Conservapedia
Jump to: navigation, search
("The Sandlot" as 1950s America as a time when "every boy had a chance to be great.": new section)
("The Sandlot": I don't think the 1950s were as conservative as today. In addition to your comment, homeschooling was prohibited in the 1950s)
Line 144: Line 144:
  
 
I suppose, maybe. It's harder to achieve greatness when one couldn't necessarily ride at the front of the bus/use the same drinking fountain/eat at the same counter/go to the same university as other folks. [[User:LloydR|LloydR]] 14:15, 28 May 2011 (EDT)
 
I suppose, maybe. It's harder to achieve greatness when one couldn't necessarily ride at the front of the bus/use the same drinking fountain/eat at the same counter/go to the same university as other folks. [[User:LloydR|LloydR]] 14:15, 28 May 2011 (EDT)
 +
 +
: Your point is valid.  Feel free to include your point in the entry itself.  I don't think the 1950s were as [[conservative]] as today.  In addition to your comment, [[homeschooling]] was prohibited in the 1950s, for example.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:29, 28 May 2011 (EDT)

Revision as of 12:29, 28 May 2011

Archive 1
Archive 2

Public Discussion Here

(post comments here by clicking "Edit this page")


I think 'Tears of the Sun' should've definitely been on the list. Its extremely pro-military.

The Blind Side

It's a story about the shortcomings of public education and how the power of private Christian charity helped a young homeless man overcome his disadvantages and play in the NFL.AdamDiscordia 19:03, 14 May 2011 (EDT)

Brokeback Mountain

I was thinking about this topic earlier and had an interesting thought about a seemingly non-conservative movie that, in a way, is actually quite so. I'm going to throw this out there for some (hopefully productive and civil) debate and see what people think.

The movie is Brokeback Mountain. Now hold on to your outrage, people. I have justifications for my point. Please hear me out. (Oh, and spoilers, just in case you planned to see/read it and hadn't)

As you probably know, the movie (and the novella on which its based) is about two men who fall into a homosexual lifestyle. But what struck me as conservative about this film is that it doesn't glorify the lifestyle; the two mens' choice to indulge in homosexuality is a disastrous choice that ends up ruining both their lives. One man's marriage is destroyed and his relationship with his child is forever tainted. The other man's choice actually leads to his violent death (Incidentally, I'm not saying that killing someone for being gay is a conservative value. But the point is that this movie is actually very up-front about acknowledging the catastrophic consequences of a homosexual lifestyle).

Considering all that, my next though was whether this movie might be unintentionally conservative, in which case it certainly doesn't belong on this list. But I don't think it is (haven't seen it since it first came out though, so I could be wrong).

So, there's my point. I would appreciate some discussion. I imagine some CPers will think I'm trolling or just trying to start an argument. Not so. I feel like it's a valid point but that there are probably strong arguments for and against, and I'd really like to hear what other people think. EMorris 17:11, 25 June 2010 (EDT)

You are partially right, but I think the homosexuals were meant to be sympathetic and on that basis alone, I don't think that movie belongs on this list. AdamDiscordia 19:05, 14 May 2011 (EDT)

U-571

I deleted U-571 from this list. It portrays the capture of an Enigma machine from a German U-boat by US forces. As pretty much everyone with any interest in WW2 knows, the naval Enigma machine was stolen by Polish forces and decoded by British code-breakers at Bletchley. My Brit friends think U-571 is a joke because it minimises the role of the British ("you arrogant Yankees"). Poles are offended because it cuts out the Polish involvement altogether - including the very brave men who risked their lives to steal an Enigma machine and hand it over to British Intelligence. (BTW, Britain and Poland were allies of ours in WW2 and still are now.) Deceit isn't a conservative virtue - so I crossed U-571 off the list. BenjyB 16:51, 20 September 2010 (EDT)

I'd say it's very questionable whether there's any deceit involved. The movie makes an on-screen written acknowledgment that the the first (and the majority) of enigmas were captured by British sailors. The whole movie is so over-the-top that nobody with a lick of intelligence would believe it's true. American sailors did capture an enigma machine during the war too, so this movie is obviously "inspired by a true story" even if it's not especially true. Most of the movie-going public knows that Hollywood "true" stories are highly fictionalized. EMorris 13:13, 21 September 2010 (EDT)

The Lives of Others

Where on earth is The Lives of Others? it is, surely, the best recent critique of Communism and, for that matter, one of the best films of any type released in the past five years. It certainly deserves a place ahead of, for example, the obscure Dark Matter. --Jdixon 12:13, 28 November 2010 (EST)

It's in German, right, and about the former East Germany? I'll add it on your recommendation, but I can't agree it ranks higher than the English-language Dark Matter, which speaks to today and not just the past.--Andy Schlafly 12:41, 28 November 2010 (EST)
Fair enough, Andy. Though I don't quite understand the argument against foreign-language films. If the issue is obscurity, The Lives of Others was seen by far more people in the US than Dark Matter. A glance at Box-Office Mojo confirms that Dark Matter took in a staggeringly tiny $30,591 on its domestic run. The Lives of Others took in $11,286,112 in the US (plus another $66 million in the rest of the world). I am, however, content to abide by your criteria. --Jdixon 15:40, 28 November 2010 (EST)
Oprah Winfrey's daytime talk show rakes in far higher revenues than both, but I'm not sure what that proves. Dark Matter was apparently victimized and downplayed by liberals who finally figured out its conservative message, after it won first place in one of the Sundance Film Festival categories. The liberal backlash against Dark Matter is particularly surprising given that Meryl Streep starred in it.--Andy Schlafly 18:48, 28 November 2010 (EST)
P.S. Your suggestion of "The Lives of Others" is a fine addition. Thanks.--Andy Schlafly 19:02, 28 November 2010 (EST)

http://www.conservapedia.com/skins/common/images/button_sig.png

No problem. Keep up the good work. --Jdixon 20:47, 28 November 2010 (EST)

Fiddler on the Roof?

A film celebrating the value of community, tradition, family, and faith, all against the historical context of the harm done by the rise of Communism in Russia...worthy of a spot on the list? --Benp 18:30, 6 January 2011 (EST)

Sounds good to me ... please add it as you think best!--Andy Schlafly 18:48, 6 January 2011 (EST)

Gattaca

A condemnation of genetic experiments on humans, and a wonderful triumph of individualism in an extremely controlled society. No matter how much scientists play to be God, and try to improve the human race by using genetics, there will always be an individual, based on original God design, who, despite his health shortcomings, will triumph over this genetically modified, supposedly perfect human beings.

I don’t immediately put it on the list because the movie is a bit atheist. In the final scene, the hero finally managed to travel to space and cites the phrase: “They say every atom in our bodies was once a part of a star. So, maybe I'm not leaving, maybe I'm going home."

So, I’ll say that the movie has a conservative message, unfortunately diluted with atheist overtones. I’ll wait for someone else opinion before posting this. --AlejandroH 23:03, 10 March 2011 (EST)

Feel free to post this with the caveat you mention. Thanks for explaining it.--Andy Schlafly 00:33, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
We talked about this movie at my fellowship a few months ago - pure hokum about a guy who might have been alright on his own but for a disgusting patriarchy forcing human engineering. I'll write this if AlejandroJ doesn't. Nate 00:51, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
Thanks, I posted it. --AlejandroH 15:31, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

Disney cartoons

Most, and perhaps all, of the Disney cartoons for the past 15 or so years have pushed the feminist ideology. I welcome any counterexamples, but doubt there are any. Hence the reversion of the "Princess and the Frog (2009)" addition.--Andy Schlafly 00:31, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

The Lion King, a 1994 Disney movie, is definitely conservative. A main message of the movie is honoring thy father, and the power-hungry main antagonist, once he becomes ruler, favors big government, pushes liberal values and destroys their territory. I'll add it with your approval. DennyW66 15:45, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
Sounds like a good choice. Please add and if anyone has a different view of the movie, then he can let us know.--Andy Schlafly 16:26, 25 March 2011 (EDT)
Added. DennyW66 16:41, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

Mr Schlafly I would agree with your reversion of my contribution of the Princess and the Frog if that movie were feminist-ideology-promoting (like, for instance Mulan (1998)) but frankly, it is not a feminist movie. I am not a woman, nor a feminist - I am staunchly conservative. The Princess and the Frog promotes monogamous marriage (which feminism does not) as well as the other conservative values I listed (such as saving money, hard work, free enterprise etc). In fact, the main character is so pro-marriage that she changes her licentious friend's behavior from debauchery (which feminism promotes) to monogamy. It is possibly the most conservative-value-laden animated movie I have ever seen.

The Lion King on the other hand promotes re-incarnation with its "Circle of Life" song. Jack, the hero of Titanic commits fornication and mocks a man reciting the 23rd Psalm; Cal, the main antagonist is depicted as a church-service-attending hypocrite.

You are doubtless correct about the feminist ideology pushed by many Disney animations, but this is not one of them. I respectfully request that you consider returning my contribution of 'The Princess and the Frog'. Spotsbunch 23:17, 25 March 2011 (EDT)

I have to disagree with you about The Lion King. As far as I can interpret, "The Circle of Life" is either about the bond all humans share or the journey from life to death and the afterlife, not reincarnation. DennyW66 00:36, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Spotsbunch, I think you have a valid point about the Lion King, but from what I've heard about the "Princess and the Frog," it's feminist claptrap with the woman wearing the pants and doing everything except having children and homeschooling her kids. It's more Disney tripe about a successful businesswoman towing along an inept man, which is hardly typical in the real world.--Andy Schlafly 00:56, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Arguably, any movie where people turn into frogs, or where in Beauty and the Beast, people have transmogrified into furniture is not "real world". Fantasies they may be, (like many movies listed here) but they are still conservative. I (finally) put it to your kind consideration that if you would watch the Princess and the Frog, you would find it contains less feminism and more conservativism than Beauty and the Beast. Whatever your judgment, I respect your decision and will refrain from further debate, even though I (thus far) disagree. Kindest regards Spotsbunch 08:43, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Feminism is unmistakable: it has women acting like men and vice-versa, contrary to reality. Disney cartoons have been heavily feminist for at least 15 years. Beauty and the Beast, made 20 years ago, was not feminist in any way. But having a "Princess" act like a businessman and aspire to run a restaurant is feminist. What's next - Cinderella aspires to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company???--Andy Schlafly 10:10, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Is there any reason a woman can't run a restaurant or a fortune 500 company? No really, Andy, I want to know. Why is it feminist to portray a woman doing anything but cooking, cleaning, and rearing children? TerryB 13:40, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Who said anything about cooking and cleaning? And, no, there isn't a reason why a woman can't aspire to any field, such as plumbers (almost no women plumbers), gas station attendants (ditto), or professional football players (ditto). The fact is that the vast majority of women do not aspire to do such activities (or running a restaurant or a Fortune 500 company), and it's false for feminists or feminist movies to repeatedly pretend otherwise.--Andy Schlafly 13:48, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
I apologize for my abrasiveness, it just seemed that you were implying that's all they're supposed to do. I can see where you're coming from. While a woman can do what she wants, feminists are wrong for telling woman that they should only aspire to do things traditionally done by men. Men normally aren't beauty consultants, clothing designers, or nail salon technicians, so why don't we see any men urging more men to do these things? TerryB 14:00, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Feminism repeatedly tries to persuade women not to have children and raise them, pretending that aspiring to work in a job is somehow better. I can't think of a single Disney movie in the last 15 years that has been realistic about the homemaker role that most women prefer.--Andy Schlafly 15:00, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Up. A key part of the story is that the old man's wife had given up her dreams of being an explorer as real life concerns around the home took precedence. Martyp 15:03, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
As promised, I will make my petition no further. However, as others have continued this debate, I will contribute to that. The Bible, our ultimate authority, disagrees (as I read it) that "a woman aspiring to run a business" (restaurant or otherwise) is feminist. Proverbs 31:10-31 describes at length "the wife of noble character" to be involved in business by working with eager hands; importing food from merchant ships; providing food for her family; purchasing property for farming; trading profitably; making and selling expensive cloth and having enough money left over to give to the poor. Anyone with a definition of feminism which includes activities like these, who also respects the Bible as God's authoritative Word should reconsider his definition. Respectfully and with kindest regards, Spotsbunch 19:15, 26 March 2011 (EDT)
Not surprisingly, you left out the verse saying "her children wake up, and call her 'blessed,' so does her husband" (CBP version), as well as several other verses that feminist movies do not include.--Andy Schlafly 00:06, 27 March 2011 (EDT)
Then would it be acceptable to put the Princess and the Frog in the "Debatable Whether Conservative" section of this page? Spotsbunch 15:44, 30 March 2011 (EDT)
There are high quality movies in the "Debatable" section. The feminist "Princess and the Frog" doesn't even come close to that level of quality and arguably conservatism.--Andy Schlafly 17:46, 30 March 2011 (EDT)

Titanic

The movie Titanic also shows the rich and privileged getting on the half-empty life boats while the poor and lower class passengers are locked below (which is actually historical). Should it truly be included in this list? SharonW 16:50, 6 April 2011 (EDT)

No, I disagree. The movie accurately portrays the wealthiest men on the boat (Guggenheim, Astor, etc.) giving up their lives so that poorer women and children could be saved.--Andy Schlafly 21:53, 6 April 2011 (EDT)
While I'm not denying there were individual acts of chivalry and that Guggenheim et al declined seats (although there is historical conflicting testimony about Astor) on the lifeboats (of which there were too few given the number of people on the ship), the numbers show a definite declining survival rate by class. This was also a theme in the movie and not one that should be ignored.
The movie showed the lower class passengers being locked in the bowels of the ship, blocking escape. There is historical conflicting testimony on this subject as well: several people reported gates between decks being locked and armed guards blocking passageways while one steerage passenger testified that the gates were not locked. Another passenger stated that not only did the staff not sound an alarm in third class, but that steerage passengers who came up on deck were told to return to their rooms because there was no danger.
First Class Women - 4/141 died (97% survival rate)1; Children: 1/7 died2 (86% survival rate); Men - 104/171 died (39% survival rate); Totals: 109/319 died (66% overall survival rate)
12 of the 4 first class female passengers who died chose to remain with their husbands. *corrected mistype.
2Lorraine Allison remained on board with her family because they had been separated from her infant brother, who was on a lifeboat with his nurse. The entire family died, with the exception of the baby.
Second Class Women: 13/92 died (86% survival rate); Children: 0/25 died (100% survival rate); Men: 135/152 died (11% survival rate); Totals: 148/269 died (45% overall survival rate)
Third Class Women: 91/179 died (49% survival rate); Children: 55/80 died (31% survival rate); Men: 381/440 died (13% survival rate); Totals: 527/699 died (25% overall survival rate)
Staff and crew Female: 2/22 died (91% survival rate); Male: 701/896 died (22% survival rate); Overall: 703/918 died (23% overall survival rate)
There are some servants left out of these numbers due to confusion
Sorry for the over-long reply, but the Titanic has been a subject of fascination to me since my teenage years (about a century ago!) so I'm rather verbose about it. 8^) I don't agree with you on the subject, but I won't remove the movie from the list. SharonW 11:51, 7 April 2011 (EDT)

Move The Dark Knight To the Debatable category?

I'm wondering whether of not The Dark Knight should be truly considered conservative-while it does have the message of not giving in to terrorist, it also includes themes of everyone being corruptible and having their limits (like the good public defendant, Harvey Dent, turning into a villain, Two Face) and seems fascinated with darkness and chaos ("Madness is like gravity all you need is a little push"). Given this all, and the fact that Patrick Leahy had a cameo in it, I think this might well be reconsidered. Thoughts? Armond White, who generally sees through liberal bias and is a more conservative viewer, wrote this about it: [1]

Thanks for your comments. I'll move "Dark Knight" to the debatable category as you suggest.--Andy Schlafly 23:22, 13 April 2011 (EDT)
I watched it when it came out, and I didn't notice anything particularly Conservative about it. The only thing really good about it was the citizen response to the terrorist dilemma the arch-villain sets up, whereby two boatloads of passengers "must" each ensure their own survival by blowing up the other's boat; a quick-witted passenger takes the remote control and throws it overboard. But this has nothing to do with Batman.
The movie shows how vicious bad people can be, and how bullies support (and recruit) other bullies. But that is hardly fodder for the liberal-conservative debate. Both sides claim to despise bullying.
I daresay the Batman character of the 1960s comic books had some "conservative" qualities, such as the noblesse oblige of the superior man and idea that society can be benefited by the actions of a heroic individual. Both of these run counter to Communist ideas of history. But the Batman movies I've seen are about a different, darker man. --Ed Poor Talk 11:45, 14 April 2011 (EDT)

"The Sandlot" as 1950s America as a time when "every boy had a chance to be great."

I suppose, maybe. It's harder to achieve greatness when one couldn't necessarily ride at the front of the bus/use the same drinking fountain/eat at the same counter/go to the same university as other folks. LloydR 14:15, 28 May 2011 (EDT)

Your point is valid. Feel free to include your point in the entry itself. I don't think the 1950s were as conservative as today. In addition to your comment, homeschooling was prohibited in the 1950s, for example.--Andy Schlafly 14:29, 28 May 2011 (EDT)