Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay:Impeach Obama"

From Conservapedia
Jump to: navigation, search
m (Discussion: fixing redundancy)
(Discussion: reply)
Line 4: Line 4:
 
#"I strongly believe the President needs to be removed from office by the U.S. Military and tried under the military court system...Am I advocating a military coup? No I am not. The military will not be running America. The only thing the military would do is relieve the President, by the powers invested by the Constitution, of his duties and put others in charge of running the country." Two questions about this. First of all, removal of the president by the military is, by definition, a military coup. Or else, where are you reading in the constitution that the military has the power to remove their commander-in-chief? Second, how is advocating a forceful overthrow of the president ''not'' sedition?
 
#"I strongly believe the President needs to be removed from office by the U.S. Military and tried under the military court system...Am I advocating a military coup? No I am not. The military will not be running America. The only thing the military would do is relieve the President, by the powers invested by the Constitution, of his duties and put others in charge of running the country." Two questions about this. First of all, removal of the president by the military is, by definition, a military coup. Or else, where are you reading in the constitution that the military has the power to remove their commander-in-chief? Second, how is advocating a forceful overthrow of the president ''not'' sedition?
 
#"As others have mentioned, we will survive Obama's presidency. But the millions of people who put this man in power will be a drain on liberty and Democracy for years to come." I don't understand this statement. Obama was democratically elected. Last November, Republicans in large numbers were democratically elected to the house, and may, if turning out in large enough numbers next November, vote Obama out of office. That's the essence of what you're calling Democracy. Are you really saying that the majority of voters who elected Obama are a drain on democracy? It seems logical to me that the democratic process is alive and well. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 10:47, 16 April 2011 (EDT)
 
#"As others have mentioned, we will survive Obama's presidency. But the millions of people who put this man in power will be a drain on liberty and Democracy for years to come." I don't understand this statement. Obama was democratically elected. Last November, Republicans in large numbers were democratically elected to the house, and may, if turning out in large enough numbers next November, vote Obama out of office. That's the essence of what you're calling Democracy. Are you really saying that the majority of voters who elected Obama are a drain on democracy? It seems logical to me that the democratic process is alive and well. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 10:47, 16 April 2011 (EDT)
 +
 +
::Thanks for your interest JDWpianist. You make some valid aurguments that break my points down sensibly, let me try and clarify.
 +
 +
:1) The Wikipedia page is just meaningless. A page with the same bullet points with Obama would, in my opinion, would be meaningless as well. My point, Obama is deserving of such criticism but is protected by the mobocracy. I don't believe those points are against the Constitution but are in fact legitimate criticisms. I believe Obama can be removed from office but the days of impeachment are about over. It is no longer an effective means of removal. Obama's crimes, particularly his lies are well documented and should be enough to warrant removal. His fiscal policy is endangering not only future generations but today's generation and world peace. His actions in Libya, without as much as a single American consulted, has in fact given our blood and treasure to the UN without permission. His willful open border policy has left the nation vulnerable. The list goes on and on, see [[Obama doublespeak]] and [[Barack Obama's unlawful acts]].
 +
 +
:2) I knew I would be called out on this one. Technically, yes I am calling for a military coup. In normal circumstances, the military removes a leader, disbands congress, shreds and restarts a constitution and a Junta becomes the defacto leadership. It's not in the Constitution but the commander-n-chief is the head of the military and the military can relieve commanders. I would like to see the military remove Obama, the second in command becomes the chief executive, Congress stays in place, the Constitution stays intact.
 +
 +
:3) Just as millions put this man in power, millions would oppose his removal. These same people ignore his crimes and are in agreement with soft tyranny of changing America into a socialist state. The breaking of an oath is serious but not to people who will do anything for an election win. These people care not for the country but of themselves and the influence and paybacks they will get from keeping Obama in power is their priority. The election of 2008 was fraud ridden.  These leeches of the state are an army of anti-Americans that won't disappear with a new leader. Did fraud equal the six million vote threshold of victory? This bad situation we find ourselves in and will likely be rectified with more elections and Democracy. He may have been democratically elected but it was a sham like no other. The election was a victory for thugs and their friends. The lies, the sheer number of lies surpasses any politician promises that are often made. Obama lied his way to victory. That is not a Democratic victory, that is a victory for fraud and deceit. I feel the discussion needs to be centered on what line cannot be crossed and what to do if it has been crossed. Impeachment will never work, that means Obama can do what he wishes without fear of removal. When he loses in 2012, and he will lose, there is not an ounce of trust left for Obama. He can start a war with Israel after November 2012 and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Unless America devises a strategy to deal with this man, we are held hostage to the power he possesses.
 +
 +
::I am just offering my opinions of course, right or wrong, you be the judge. Thanks for reading and you Obama apologists, thanks for criticizing. Hopefully this page helps grow Conservapedia!!! --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 19:12, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

Revision as of 18:12, 16 April 2011

Discussion

Seeing as you wrote this essay "to bring about a discussion," I'll take you up on this and engage with you on a few points.

  1. What precisely are you alleging are Obama's crimes against the constitution which make the usual constitutional measures (election, impeachment) not strong enough? You mention "Justification of the invasion, conduct of the war, treatment of detainees, NSA warrantless surveillence, etc.," but these, as you say, are unconstitutional acts of the Bush administration which Obama has continued despite their unconstitutionality. As you rightly point out about Wikipedia, it's hypocritical to say that Bush was deserving of impeachment for these but Obama is not. But of course, that also means that the reverse is also true, is it not?
  2. "I strongly believe the President needs to be removed from office by the U.S. Military and tried under the military court system...Am I advocating a military coup? No I am not. The military will not be running America. The only thing the military would do is relieve the President, by the powers invested by the Constitution, of his duties and put others in charge of running the country." Two questions about this. First of all, removal of the president by the military is, by definition, a military coup. Or else, where are you reading in the constitution that the military has the power to remove their commander-in-chief? Second, how is advocating a forceful overthrow of the president not sedition?
  3. "As others have mentioned, we will survive Obama's presidency. But the millions of people who put this man in power will be a drain on liberty and Democracy for years to come." I don't understand this statement. Obama was democratically elected. Last November, Republicans in large numbers were democratically elected to the house, and may, if turning out in large enough numbers next November, vote Obama out of office. That's the essence of what you're calling Democracy. Are you really saying that the majority of voters who elected Obama are a drain on democracy? It seems logical to me that the democratic process is alive and well. JDWpianist 10:47, 16 April 2011 (EDT)
Thanks for your interest JDWpianist. You make some valid aurguments that break my points down sensibly, let me try and clarify.
1) The Wikipedia page is just meaningless. A page with the same bullet points with Obama would, in my opinion, would be meaningless as well. My point, Obama is deserving of such criticism but is protected by the mobocracy. I don't believe those points are against the Constitution but are in fact legitimate criticisms. I believe Obama can be removed from office but the days of impeachment are about over. It is no longer an effective means of removal. Obama's crimes, particularly his lies are well documented and should be enough to warrant removal. His fiscal policy is endangering not only future generations but today's generation and world peace. His actions in Libya, without as much as a single American consulted, has in fact given our blood and treasure to the UN without permission. His willful open border policy has left the nation vulnerable. The list goes on and on, see Obama doublespeak and Barack Obama's unlawful acts.
2) I knew I would be called out on this one. Technically, yes I am calling for a military coup. In normal circumstances, the military removes a leader, disbands congress, shreds and restarts a constitution and a Junta becomes the defacto leadership. It's not in the Constitution but the commander-n-chief is the head of the military and the military can relieve commanders. I would like to see the military remove Obama, the second in command becomes the chief executive, Congress stays in place, the Constitution stays intact.
3) Just as millions put this man in power, millions would oppose his removal. These same people ignore his crimes and are in agreement with soft tyranny of changing America into a socialist state. The breaking of an oath is serious but not to people who will do anything for an election win. These people care not for the country but of themselves and the influence and paybacks they will get from keeping Obama in power is their priority. The election of 2008 was fraud ridden. These leeches of the state are an army of anti-Americans that won't disappear with a new leader. Did fraud equal the six million vote threshold of victory? This bad situation we find ourselves in and will likely be rectified with more elections and Democracy. He may have been democratically elected but it was a sham like no other. The election was a victory for thugs and their friends. The lies, the sheer number of lies surpasses any politician promises that are often made. Obama lied his way to victory. That is not a Democratic victory, that is a victory for fraud and deceit. I feel the discussion needs to be centered on what line cannot be crossed and what to do if it has been crossed. Impeachment will never work, that means Obama can do what he wishes without fear of removal. When he loses in 2012, and he will lose, there is not an ounce of trust left for Obama. He can start a war with Israel after November 2012 and there is nothing that can be done to stop it. Unless America devises a strategy to deal with this man, we are held hostage to the power he possesses.
I am just offering my opinions of course, right or wrong, you be the judge. Thanks for reading and you Obama apologists, thanks for criticizing. Hopefully this page helps grow Conservapedia!!! --Jpatt 19:12, 16 April 2011 (EDT)