Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay: The evolutionist and atheist Oxyaena offers a lame reply to Conservapedia's challenge"

Latest revision as of 14:28, April 22, 2019

In his "response" to this essay, Oxyaena did not answer any of the reasonable questions that I posed to him. As much as I hate to do it, I declare victory!Conservative (talk) 05:43, 21 April 2019 (EDT)

"Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct." - AristotleConservative (talk) 05:44, 21 April 2019 (EDT)

Update: Evolutionist and atheist Oxyaena offers an updated reply to Conservapedia's challenge

The evolutionist and atheist Oxyaena at an atheist/agnostic wiki offered an updated reply to Conservapedia's challenge.

One of the questions I posed to Oxyaena was: "Given the much higher birth rates of Christian fundamentalists and the adherents of other fundamentalist Abrahamic religions, the sub-replacement level of fertility of atheists and the fact the secularization rates of France and Protestant Europe are now zero, that given enough time, atheists could be a very much smaller portion of the global population and the religious could inherit the earth."

Oxyaena wrote in response to the question: "Well,...[User:Conservative]..., if I were to stick to the exact wording it is possible your pipe-dream scenario could happen, but unlikely."

While he did concede this scenario was possible, if he honestly answered the other questions I posed to him, he would be forced to admit that the odds are strongly stacked in favor of the desecularization of the world. There is nearly a 50 year trend in the world in terms of atheists/agnostics growing to be a smaller percentage in the world population (and now there are some scholars indicating the number of atheists in the world is falling too) and some of the key underlying causes of desecularization are growing stronger (see: Global atheism statistics and Causes of desecularization). In addition, Pew Research indicates the Nones are expected to fall too in terms of their percentage of the world population. And in a world of legal/illegal immigration and sub-replacement fertility rates of developed nations, it is reasonable to expect immigration could continue in the world in a significant manner which would bring religious immigrants with higher fertility rates into developed countries. In addition, we are seeing the secularization thesis failing in Europe/East Asia with the religious populations making gains on the back of immigration and their higher fertility rates in Europe and in East Asia via evangelism (These are the two areas where most atheists exist, see: Global atheism). There will probably not be complete desecularization of the world as atheism has existed since biblical times (Psalm 14:1). Conservative (talk) 21:09, 21 April 2019 (EDT)

Not only do atheists have a much lower birthrate than religious people, but if we factor in immigration, I think Cons's point becomes more obvious. Most immigration to Europe comes from the Islamic world, which is very religious and has very high birthrates. To a lesser extent, Western Europe also receives immigration from Eastern European countries such as Poland, which are more religious. Either way, demographics are stacked against atheists. --1990'sguy (talk) 21:33, 21 April 2019 (EDT)

In fact, I remember reading a Wikipedia article related to the Reagan Revolution that really began in the late 1970s, and it had a quote of a liberal complaining that it happened because Christian conservatives "had more babies." The same thing will probably happen with regard to atheism vs. theism. --1990'sguy (talk) 21:43, 21 April 2019 (EDT)

Numerous atheists have said the atheist movement is dying/dead (See: Decline of the atheist movement). Kubler-Ross and colleagues developed a five stage model of death and dying.[1] The first stage is denial. I think Oxyaena and likeminded atheists are still in the denial stage about 21st century desecularization even though the percentage of atheists in the world has been in the decline since 1970 and even though the secularization rate is now zero in France and Protestant Europe. And there are 10s of millions of evangelical Christians in China. Look at THIS GRAPH ABOUT THE GROWTH OF CHRISTIANITY IN CHINA in a DW news story about Chinese Christianity (DW is a mainstream news outlet in Germany). Oxyaena, Ace McWicked and likeminded atheists are 21st century desecularization denialists.Conservative (talk) 09:16, 22 April 2019 (EDT)

1990sguy is exactly correct, the Reagan Revolution that really began in the late 1970s

Unlike the fake historical narratives that claim a Southern strategy was the result of the 1965 Civil Rights Act, Christian Evangelicals and Reagan Democrats exited the Democratic party after the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling. They voted for Carter in 1976 thinking he would challenge abortion, but by the 1978 Midterms they lost patience with of Carter's support for feminism. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 09:26, 22 April 2019 (EDT)

RobS, history belongs to those who show up. Higher fertility rates in a population means more future voters. Atheists, agnostics and the non-religious with their sub-replacement level of births and now facing desecularization in the areas where most atheists live. Sooner or later they are going to lose power. And once they lose the levers of power, many institutions which promote their ideology such as education systems are going to do so no longer. We see this happening in Hungary, Turkey, Poland, etc. (Turkey banned the teaching of evolution in primary schools and secondary schools for example).

As far as undemocratic areas where atheism is prevalent, Xi Jinping's president for life status was not a sign of strength, but a sign of weakness. The Chinese see the potential economic problems that are on the horizon for China, the explosive growth of Christianity in China, the 70,000 plus instances of recent civil unrest in China[2], etc. etc and so he was made president for life. And of course, many atheist, communist leaders have been power hungry, egotistical and have endeavored to create cults of personality. Evangelical Christianity often thrives in instances of economic/political uncertainty as I mentioned in this essay.Conservative (talk) 10:05, 22 April 2019 (EDT)

Cons, we're going to need an Atheism section in Cultural Marxism as the 2020 election approaches. Here's an excellent source from the New American. The same or similar material could be used in Gramsci and Long march through the institutions. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 10:18, 22 April 2019 (EDT)

RobSmith, your article says, "We should never allow ourselves to be stampeded, herd like, into forming opinions and judgments stimulated and orchestrated by the sensationalism of the press and the other media masters."[3] I am largely boycotting the mainstream news. Their worthlessness was amply demonstrated via the 2016 election and post release of the Mueller report. Anyone who is still following the mainstream news media after the Trump/Russia collusion hoax was exposed is very gullible.Conservative (talk) 10:28, 22 April 2019 (EDT)