Difference between revisions of "Talk:Gun control"

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:''' [[User:TheReverendLee|The Rev.]] 10:16, 23 June 2007 (EDT) '''
 
:''' [[User:TheReverendLee|The Rev.]] 10:16, 23 June 2007 (EDT) '''
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Uhh, is it really proper for the article to claim that "Increased "gun control" is generally promoted by pacifists and liberals as a remedy to crime, but that is actually a [[deceit]]" right in the first paragraph? I mean, that's a big assertion and there's no citation to back it up. I think such a statement would be better suited to the second or third paragraphs, maybe... [[User:GrandSoviet|GrandSoviet]] 23:36, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

Revision as of 03:36, 30 June 2007

Quote: "This right is a natural right which we are endowed by our Creator with, and the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution explicitly recognizes this pre-existing natural right of individuals to own and carry tools useful for self-defense."

This assertion requires citation to comply with the Commandments, as, no matter how rational and obvious, it is a personal opinion. Additionally, it would be useful, and would strengthen the assertion, if a clearer explanation of the constitutional right to carry tools really exists, vis-a-vis pre-existing natural rights. If a constitutional scholar is available, it would be great if he could comment here, as the Second Amendment is of the utmost importance and we should support it more clearly.

I agree, the wording of the Second Amendment is hardly explicit. Also, Jesus reprimanded Peter for trying to defend them with a sword, so whether our Creator wants us to defend ourselves with guns is debatable. --Daniel B. Douglas 12:57, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
Besides: the "natural" sic for (inalienable?) right stems for the Declaration of Independence not from the Constitution. --Crackertalk 13:06, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

I think my version was more clear and accurate, but it's your site. Palmd001 09:05, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

The Second Amendment gives 'The People' - that is The American People (not persons as in individuals) the right to arm itself, specifically against the British who claimed sovereignty over the American People, forbidding them to bear arms except under the King.

Countries with gun control have fewer homicides, as do US states with gun control. And as Daniel B Douglas points out Jesus requires his followers to turn the other cheek: I certainly don't remember God asking us to arm ourselves to the teeth. KT

The Bill of Rights is specifically about INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS. If you think Jesus Christ, the Son of God is a pacifist then you should read about His second coming in the Book of Revelations. In all countries without a similar version of our 2nd Ammendment right have fewer individual freedoms and rights. Gee, if only we were like other countries, sigh.--Roopilots6 19:04, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

Patriot Act

Cut:

Interestingly enough, the USA PATRIOT Act is another law that restricts liberties in the name of safety, yet those in favor of the PATRIOT ACT are often opposed to gun control.

What does "another law that restricts liberties" mean? Is it a "restriction" that any overseas phone call I make to a suspected terrorist will be monitored?

Where is the contradiction between wanted terrorists thwarted, and wanting to defend oneself against muggers and rapists? --Ed Poor 09:00, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

VIRGINIA TECH

So - is NOW a good time to discuss things like waiting periods (I beleive Virginia has none), conceal laws(Virginia lets you do that) and other such unpleasantries???? Jacobin 20:22, 16 April 2007 (EDT) 20:22, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Any time is a good time to help craft a balanced article presenting arguments for and against gun control laws. I have seen arguments on both sides enough to fill up several books.
Can you boil it down to 2,000 words or less?

well, cars still kill wayyy more people.Jaques 21:55, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Uhm... So anything that kills less that cars per year should be legal to have and use? Timppeli 22:00, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
47,000 fatal car accidents per year in the U.S. versus around 1,000,000 non-fatal uses of guns in self-defense. I'd ban cars on that basis, but there's obviously much more to it. Do we have an article summarizing the findings of John Lott, the statistician who wrote More Guns, Less Crime? --Ed Poor 22:08, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Question: What happens if one of the students who was shot had a gun with which to defend himself? Answer: there would be less people dead then there are now. --CPAdmin1 22:21, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Counter question: How many students would be killed every year in shootouts in schools, if we allowed people to carry guns there? I bet even the accidental shootings would kill more people nationwide, not to mention all the things people can do when they are angry, gang related stuff and so on. Timppeli 22:40, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Question: what happens if the murderer hadn't been able to get a gun? Answer: there would be many less people dead then there are now. -AmesGyo! 22:25, 16 April 2007 (EDT)


Question: Who are and who are not prevented from getting guns by gun control laws? Answer: Law abiding citizens are prevented from getting guns and criminals are not. --HSDad 22:36, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Reply Regardless of what the laws are a criminal who wants a gun will be able to get one. Look an how effective (not very) the laws against illegal drugs are. gun control takes the guns out of the hands of the law abiding citizens but not the criminals. --CPAdmin1 22:31, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
More likely he would use some other weapon to kill. Like run over someone with his car.Jaques 22:30, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Well they have so-called "motor-voter" laws that enable people who get driver's licenses to register to vote.
Perhaps they could draft a "motor-toter" law, to issue every driver a handgun? Carjackings would go WAY down. Rob Pommertalk

The argument that criminals would still get guns if they wanted them has some foundation in logic, however, it has no foundation statistically. A comparison to England will suffice. It bears out the conclusion that while some criminals still get guns, it is fewer - the mental & physical block of having to break another law just to get a gun actually deters gun crime :-) -AmesGyo! 22:42, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Allso should be concidered where the criminals get their guns, those dont show up from nowhere. Most are stolen from those who have legally purchased them. Less gun owners, less weapons around to be stolen. Timppeli 22:44, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
or stolen from a cop. ya, all cops have guns. Jaques 12:40, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Guys, all of this is good stuff, but please consider before posting whether it's better to go to the Debate topics. Are you planning to help write a balanced article here? --Ed Poor 22:47, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

  • Read this information via Hot Air. -- AmeriCan 03:45, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

We've got a discussion going on here already: http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Would_the_repeal_of_gun_control_laws_make_incidents_like_today%27s_shooting_at_Virginia_Tech_less_likely_to_occur%3F DanH 04:01, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Gun Control Leads to gun confiscation.

I am planning to remove this because it has no reference. -Brian

If everyone, including children old enough to pull a trigger, owned a gun, would there be more or fewer shootings of human beings, accidental or intentional? I'm including felons, mentally ill, illegal aliens, legal aliens, and aliens from outer space.

Somewhere else in the world

I'm wondering if it would be useful to add something about Singapore, which has some of the most extrems laws about gun control. Something like :

"In Singapore, which has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, the capital punishment is mandatory for "arms trafficking", ie owning more than two weapons under the Misuse of Arms Act, and caning is mandatory for any person found in posession of a weapon (not even a firearm)"

Any comment? Emptiness 05:20, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

I, the inferior European who cannot possibly understand anything you superior Americans discuss here, have something to add in too. And yes, that was sarcasm. So here, I´ll offer you a little piece of gun control info from the rest of the world: Here in Finland, we have certain, quite strict gun control laws: it is quite close to impossible for a private person to own a *handgun* without a very good reason, such as being the owner of a shooting range, sports, or being a police officer. Also, anything beyond semi-auto is a BIG no-no for civilians here. Shotguns and Rifles ARE available far easier, since hunting is a very popular pastime here in Finland, especially the northern parts where I live in. Interesting enough, most homicides and crimes in general do NOT involve guns, they involve alcohol and drugs. Far more common as a murder weapon is a kitchen knife than a firearm of some kind, and a very large proportion of ALL crimes in finland involve alcohol in a way or another. Just my two cents, y´know?

..And Come on, we have friggin RUSSIA as our neighbour. FreakyM 08:52, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

Duplicate sentence revert.

Okay, I guess I might just have a bee in my bonnet over this, but the sentence, Increased "gun control" is generally promoted by pacifists and liberals as a remedy to crime. appears twice -- in a row. Once as the end of the first paragraph, and then as the first sentence of the second paragraph. I attempted to correct this obvious mistake, but I was reverted. Would someone please tell me how I was wrong to do this, and why it is necessary to repeat this sentence immediately after itself and why it should not be removed from the tail of the first paragraph?

As it appears in the article:

Such measures can range from a total prohibition on civilian ownership and possession of firearms and ammunition to specific restrictions on certain firearm features, "waiting periods" for gun purchases, licensing of gun owners, registration of firearms, etc. Increased "gun control" is generally promoted by pacifists and liberals as a remedy to crime.

Increased "gun control" is generally promoted by pacifists and liberals as a remedy to crime. Libertarians and conservatives, on the other hand, argue that whether or not guns are officially controlled by the government, criminals will commit crimes, and a black market will exist to provide them with firearms.

Have at me.

The Rev. 22:36, 22 June 2007 (EDT)


I see the revert was removed, and the correction made. Thank you. I am avenged.
The Rev. 10:16, 23 June 2007 (EDT)

Uhh, is it really proper for the article to claim that "Increased "gun control" is generally promoted by pacifists and liberals as a remedy to crime, but that is actually a deceit" right in the first paragraph? I mean, that's a big assertion and there's no citation to back it up. I think such a statement would be better suited to the second or third paragraphs, maybe... GrandSoviet 23:36, 29 June 2007 (EDT)