Difference between revisions of "Talk:Henry Ford"

Revision as of 05:06, August 17, 2011

Was Henry Ford really an anti-Semite? sounds dubious. Flippin 12:23, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Ford was very much an anti-Semite. He used his newspaper, the Dearborn Independent, to publish a series of articles together known as "The International Jew", where he argued there was a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. He did later go on to apologize for it, though.--Steve 13:10, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Actually, the title was "The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem."

And the apology sparked a comic popular song of the 1920s, "Since Henry Ford Apologized to Me," in which a pair of Yiddish-accented comics exchange quips about being so thrilled they're going to trade their Chevrolet for a Ford, etc. I don't have the lyrics here, but it's on a CD collection entitled From Avenue A to the Great White Way, just in case you find it hard to believe... Dpbsmith 15:11, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

An article about the circumstances of the apology is here and the letter of apology itself is here. Dpbsmith 15:15, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Henry Ford anti-semitism

Calling Henry Ford an anti-semite insinuates that he advocated depriving Jews of their civil rights. Ford was very critical of Jews but was very careful to inform people not to harm Jews. Ford never supported the Nazis or any group that called for violence against Jews. This Henry Ford article needs a lot of work.

The above comment was made by clearview at 14:39 PST, June 19, 2007 (I am new and learning).

I agree with the above. Henry Ford never wrote anything antisemitic and he only gets a bad reputation from socialists who don't want him to be popular because he makes capitalism look good. This man was one of America's greatest heroes and doesn't deserve to be associated with Nazis who were socialists after all, the exact opposite of capitalists. This information is just propaganda, probably copied from Wikipedia. We should remove, I don't know why people are reverting me. --CraigF 23:06, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

First, you were reverted because you were making a huge revision to the article without discussing it on the talk page. Second, back up your claims with independent references, then propose changes to the existing text, rather than wholesale deletion. --SharonW 23:13, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

Anyone can accuse someone of antisemitism, it doesn't mean we have to repeat those slanders. Most of what I removed was sourced to a book called "Henry Ford and the Jews: The Mass Production of Hate" it is obviously anti capitalist propaganda. Everything that is sourced to this book is a problem and if those statements were removed it would be fine, but that would leave a section which basically says "Some people accused Ford of antisemitism, but they were wrong." I don't think we should mention it. --CraigF 23:40, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

I just noticed that Ferdinand Porsche didn't mention that he was a Nazi, but this page has a whole section devoted to slandering Ford. This doesn't make any sense. --CraigF 23:55, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

It makes complete sense when you understand how Wikis are edited: Some articles are more focused on then others. The same thing happens at wikipedia, it's only more pronounced here because of the smaller userbase. --SeanS 23:59, 16 August 2011 (EDT)

What doesn't make sense to me is that when I try and fix it people revert me. --CraigF 00:02, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

Because your trying to remove a large section. Atleast that's my understanding of the problem. --SeanS 00:03, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

It didn't take me too long to discover newspapers from that time period accusing Ford of supporting Hitler and the Nazis. See The New York Times, December 20, 1922, page 2 transcribed here. If Porche was a Nazi, then add it to the article with verifiable references. --SharonW 00:05, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

I don't deny that newspapers slandered him, I just don't understand why we have to. I also don't understand why you ask for citations for Porsche connections with the Nazis when it is a well known fact he worked with the Nazis happily. --CraigF 00:24, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

Working with =/= Being a nazi. --SeanS 00:25, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

@ SeanS - I never said he was a Nazi, just that he supported them with money.

@ CraigF - I'm a firm believer in references. --SharonW 00:33, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

My comment was directed at CraigF, not you actually. --SeanS 00:34, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

Porsche was a personal friend of Hitler, he made cars and tanks for the Germans during WWII using slave labor. If that isn't a Nazi, than I don't know what is. It is really strange that you guys are defending Porsche and at the same time you are connecting Ford to statements made by other people when he even apologized for what those people said and specifically said he didn't agree with them. --CraigF 00:37, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

Working with Nazis/being a friend of a Nazi =/= being one. Or are you going to argue 1940's America was communist because we helped out the soviets? --SeanS 00:39, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

I don't know how to respond to that. I'm just shocked. This is a trustworthy encyclopedia not a anti American propaganda piece. --CraigF 00:47, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

Anti-American... When did I say anything anti-American? --SeanS 00:50, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

Associating an American hero like Ford with the Nazis is anti-American. The accusations against him are baseless and wrong yet they are repeated here. Yet you say a German who used slave labor and helped Hitler and was arrested for war crimes =/= a Nazi. I'm sorry I'm new here, but I'm really confused. --CraigF 00:53, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

CraigF - please show one single place where any of us have "defended" Porche? Asking for a cite to verify an edit isn't "defending". I've said several times that you should add the information to the article on Porche, complete with references. I've also said that you should support your claims about Ford with references. If you're dissatisfied with the reference used in the Ford article, then I'll look for other ones. As for Ford, he owned the Independent, which published 91 articles about a book called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which described a Jewish "conspiracy" to take over the world. When it was proven to be a forgery, Ford's remark was, "The only statement I care to make about The Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on."[1]

I actually have to say that what you seem to be saying is true. He did seem hate Jews. Until now Ford was a personal hero of mine. I thought he showed that capitalism was the best economic system, but then he endorsed the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I haven't heard of them until today, they say they are hoax, do we know that for sure? --CraigF 01:06, 17 August 2011 (EDT)

new material

I added a lot of new material which I previously had posted on Citizendium and Wikipedia. RJJensen 07:30, 28 September 2008 (EDT)