Talk:Jonestown Massacre

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Does anyone have a legal picture of Jones that can be used on this page? If so please contribute.

Thanks

Thank you for the article. I didn't know about this incident, but the article explained it very well. I hope one day to be able to write similar long, precise, well referenced articles myself! SilvioB 06:16, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

Mind control and brainwashing

Cut from article:

The conclusion was that he was "first and foremost a master of mind control," which he used on his followers to serve his needs and whims; this was practiced in Indiana, the committee discovered, and perfected in California. Among the tactics he practiced with engineered precision are the following recognized strategies of brainwashing.

I object to these two sentences, first because not all the bullet points after it are related to the concepts of mind control or brainwashing. Second, the concept of mind control is not a scientific one. The chief proponent of the concept lost the right to testify as an expert witness when the lack of scientific basis for the theory was exposed. As for brainwashing, this is generally held to apply only to prisoners of war - or to other captives. I have not seen any information on its effects persisting after a prisoner is released or escapes. --Ed Poor ^Talk 07:51, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Your edits to this entry are good, Ed, and I learned from your insights. There was misplaced anti-religious bashing in it that I took out last night.--aschlafly 09:07, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Someone better get their facts straight

"Drinking the Kool-Aid" is now a part of our language; it comes directly from this mass suicide and the leftist conditions/beliefs that led to it, yet for years and years I have seen the left desperate to change the name of the drink to "Flavorade", as if the Kool-Ade drink mix was never there at all. Now what I want to see is proof that it was only Flavorade that was there. Any takers? Karajou (talk) 13:54, 31 January 2019 (EST)

This site says it was Flavorade. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 14:00, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Jim Jones himself said Kool-Aid. So did period newspapers and magazines at the time. Karajou (talk) 14:09, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Here's what I'm saying. The liberal left is desperate to change the narrative in anything, the Jonestown massacre included, and I for one am not going to fall for it. Jim Jones was a socialist/leftist[1]. He was among those people in positions of power which turned San Fransisco left. As to his Christianity, it never existed[2].

Kool-Aid is also the de facto name for any powdered drink mix, whether it's Flavorade, or Wyler's, or any other; people will call the stuff "Kool-Aid" regardless of what it is. "Drinking the Kool-Aid" comes directly from that incident, and it has been used as a metaphor to describe the idiotic-to-suicidal proposals made by the left over the years; it has stuck with them, and they want to get rid of it. To that end they will continually say that it was Flavorade used in that cocktail, not Kool-Aid at all, and the side-implication was that the Kool-Aid was never there. Since stating that they have never once shown a single photograph taken at the site in the week following the massacre of torn up Flavorade packets; if found they have to only be Flavorade packets, and not Kool-Aid, right? Contradicting the naysayers, it is Jim Jones himself who is opening a trunk of his supplies in this video[3], revealing both Flavorade and Kool-Aid, and calling the whole thing Kool-Aid. Both were there in his trunk in Jonestown at least one year prior to the massacre, and when the massacre did take place I can bet that the clowns that mixed the batch weren't going to stand there and debate which brand to pick.

And incidentally, as a side-note the trunk also contained Royal gelatin. By habit we still call that brand and similar ones "Jello". Karajou (talk) 14:57, 31 January 2019 (EST)

I don't get why you're so bothered by this. No amount of evidence to the contrary is ever going to remove "drinking the Kool-Aid" from common parlance. Let's imagine some top-notch research reveals Caesar was actually assassinated on 16th March. No-one's going to abandon "Beware the Ides of March", are they? JohnZ (talk) 16:07, 31 January 2019 (EST)

I see where you're coming from, but the " bother" is the MSM. Every time this subject comes up, they have got to stress the Flavorade. Karajou (talk) 16:53, 31 January 2019 (EST)

MSM fears lawsuits from the Kool-Aid company for slander and defamation, which Kool-Aid can evidently prove is true. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 17:00, 31 January 2019 (EST)

General Motors for example, owns the trademark to Chevrolet, Chevy, GMC, and even "Jimmy.' Coca-Cola owns the trademark to "Coke." These companies guard their trademark and advertising investment jealously (Remember how Howard Johnson refused to sell you a "coke" until you specifically asked for a Howard Johnson Cola). The owner and inventor of the mechanical staircase refused to trademark his invention, thinking his contribution to humanity - the Escalator - would become a household word. Otis Elevator, a company 10 times Escalator's size, soon started manufacturing its own 'Escalator' and put the Escalator company out of business.

Millions of dollars are at stake, and harm to a tradename reputation results in damages. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 17:23, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Here's my theory: this occurred before the 1980 Chicago Tylenol-cyanide scare and the 1984 San Ysidro McDonald's massacre. In the later two events, Tylenol and McDonald's took immediate steps to protect their name brand, probably based on the experience of Kool-Aid. This has been often discussed in marketing and advertising publications and business schools since. Even journalism has been affected. When similar events have occurred in recent decades, new organizations are careful not to offend sponsors or potential advertisers by citing name brands in horrific stories, kinda the same way they don't identify the race of a person in a horrific crime. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 16:23, 31 January 2019 (EST)

IOW, a company spends millions to build up public trust in a namebrand, and has it wiped out in a moment by a single nutcase and a sensationalizing media trying scoop headlines, even when the headlines destroy one of their own sponsors. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 16:32, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Flavorade and Kool-Aid were seen on camera in Jonestown before the incident so they may have had both products in their supplies.[4]

Regardless of the underlying facts of which product(s) were used in the mass suicide, both brands are likely permanently tainted somewhat. Generally, it is very hard to reposition a brand. No big deal. Both products are probably not good for people's health anyways.

There is a "brand" more permanently and extensively having branding problems. And that is the "brand" of atheism. See: Distrust of atheists and Views on atheists and Brights Movement.Conservative (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Being that Kamala Harris's mentor, Willie Brown is drawing attention (he made homosexuality legal in California, she made gay marriage legal in California) and he got her started in politics, you might want to consider adding something about Willie Brown's Atheistic Lifestyle (according to WP). Brown evidently holds the same progressive views his "good and trusted friend", Jim Jones held. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 17:59, 31 January 2019 (EST)

I almost forgot that Jim Jones was an atheist and secular leftist. Anyways, in America atheists are getting a slight/small reprieve from their negative reputation, yet there is no openly atheist U.S. Congressman.[5] But by 2043, the secular population in the USA is expected to plateau according to an academic journal (see: American atheism). But who knows? A better border wall or a change in immigration policy could change the amount of religious immigrants coming to the USA. So could a religious revival or a severe economic downturn (evangelicalism often thrives in times of economic/political instability. People often turn to God in times of trouble). Regardless, things look grim for atheism activists in the longer term as far as the 21st century (see: Desecularization). Conservative (talk) 18:08, 31 January 2019 (EST)

These people are all self-identified "progressives": Jim Jones, Willie Brown, and Kamala Harris. All three were actively involved in the gay rights movement, and in the cases of Brown & Harris, gay marriage. Jones personally admitted to being an atheist. It shouldn't be too hard to connect the dots. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 18:25, 31 January 2019 (EST)

RobS, the Wikipedia article mentions Willie Brown's "Aesthetic" style (how he dresses) and not atheistic style (I realize the spelling of those two words are close). And Willie Brown is an African American and the Wikipedia article appears to demonstrate his aesthetic style wearing some kind of silk prayer shawl (African Americans tend not to be atheists, see: Western atheism and race). Anyways, atheists are often nerds (See: Atheist nerds). And nerds are not known for being well dressed unless you consider nerdy glasses and pocket protectors as being fashionable. :)Conservative (talk) 18:32, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Well, I was thinking in terms of a contrasting subheading ==Atheistic style==, beginning with his association and defense of an atheist mass murderer of blacks and his progressive accomplishments in gay rights and toward gay marriage. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 18:42, 31 January 2019 (EST)

You begin it something like this, "Brown was a close and trusted friend of the atheist mass murderer Jim Jones who was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Blacks while pursuing their shared progressive ideology...." RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 18:52, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Brown is pivotal to (1) Jim Jones relationship to the California Democratic party. It was Brown who introduced Jones to Gov. Brown, Mayor Moscone, Councilman Harvey Milk; it was the Calif. Democratic party that introduced Jones to Jimmy and Roslyn Carter, etc.; (2) Willie Brown got Kamala Harris started in politics; (3) Brown & Harris are responsible for the success of the LGBT movement thus far, and the current progressive mess we're in.

Brown's rise in California politics is largely due to wealthy gay donors and an alliance between gays & Blacks, making gay rights a civil rights issue. Harris will continue this program. The Peoples Temple is an object lesson where this alliance is headed and where it ends. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 19:04, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Split

Eventually, in the near future, this article may have to be split into separate articles on Jim Jones, the Peoples Temple, and Jonestown. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 18:28, 2 February 2019 (EST)