Difference between revisions of "Talk:Liberal bias in academia"

Latest revision as of 14:57, June 26, 2008

Fine, let's add some citations. No one seriously doubts that liberal grading occurs.--Aschlafly 19:26, 25 February 2008 (EST)

As undeniable as liberal bias, liberal tricks and liberal hypocrisy - well, actually, liberals probably do deny those, haha. :-) Feebasfactor 19:38, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Indeed they do deny it, along with the long list at liberal denial.--Aschlafly 19:41, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Parody

This page was created as a parody, and I don't think that we should have it. While I do believe that some teachers would actually grade like that, I think that it is rare enough to not warrant it's own page. --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 23:27, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Looking at the edit history, it would seem that Aschlafly might disagree. Indeed. Aboganza 23:28, 25 February 2008 (EST)

What evidence do you have that it was created as a parody? It doesn't read any differently than many of the other liberal behavior essays on the site. Many editors have contributed to it including Andy who clearly doesn't see it as a parody. SSchultz 23:30, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Many teachers grade like that. In a mere 5 minutes I found a clear example. If you researched it, then I'm confident you could find others. And the reported examples are just the tip of the iceberg. Ask any conservative student who has taken classes from many liberal outside of pure math and science.--Aschlafly 23:32, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Your example is not grading students based on political views. It is an example of teachers rushing to judgement and punishing students for a crime they did not commit. there is nothing liberal about it. Oh, and i have taken classes from liberal teachers. In fact I got an A when I probably deserved a B. --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 23:37, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Andy, I agree with you that this is a real issue and a serious one at that. If a student wants to write a conservative essay about the role of a conservative economic policy, then the essay should be judged on its style and merits and shouldn't be graded down purely because of an ideological disagreement. The question is whether or not the article as it was originally written was a parody. Tim seems to think so. Indeed, so much so that he blocked the original author. Where's the evidence for this being a parody? SSchultz 23:35, 25 February 2008 (EST)

discussion witnessed at another wiki which is not allowed to be named here. I would post you a diff, but that would not be allowed either. --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 23:37, 25 February 2008 (EST)

I don't know -- or care -- whether a parodist contributed to the entry. Often the truth is ridiculed and parodied. I do know that liberal grading is a real problem and the student was not downgraded at Duke because anyone seriously thought he was a criminal. He had not even been charged with a crime. He was downgraded as a pure result of liberal grading, because the student had done something politically incorrect. And that was an example I found in a mere 5 minutes on the internet. Have others here done as much research?--Aschlafly 23:41, 25 February 2008 (EST)

What did the student do that was "politically incorrect"? --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 23:43, 25 February 2008 (EST)

You also have yet to explain how the grading was liberal. --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 00:28, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Oh come now, you've been here long enough to know the score. The "politically incorrect act" was rape, because - you know - mentioning what the person was actually accused of might weaken the case just a wee bit. The grading was liberal because EVERY professor at a major university is a liberal, QED. It's best not to argue the toss, because otherwise someone is 95% certain to question your position on school prayer to avoid having to actually present a rational argument. --CabbageCrate 05:35, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Well you know, Andy I see what you mean when you say Liberal grading - and I do believe that grades on papers will occasionally be bumped up if the paper represents a view that agrees with the teacher (and let's face it - a lot of public school teachers are liberal); but at the same time, I don't think it's significant enough or frequent enough for an encyclopedia article.--IDuan 00:41, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Do you believe any of the "liberal x" articles deserve an entry? I think there's a reason why Britannica doesn't have an article on Liberal style, Liberal denial, Liberal friendship, Liberal tricks, Liberal obfuscation, Liberal logic, Liberal tools, Liberal denial, Liberal Myths, Liberal hypocrisy, Liberal hysteria, Liberal celebrity obsession or Hollywood values, and that reason isn't liberal censorship of "conservative facts" --CabbageCrate 05:43, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Hysteria

I have to say Aschlafly that all these liberal articles sound almost like conservative hysteria. Liberalism is just an political ideology. You seem to make out that people with liberal views are monsters with one aim - to bring down society. To cheat, to lie, deny and destroy. Liberals are just like other people. No more deceitful than the next person. I live in a liberal country and while I dont agree with some of the laws round here everyone seems happy and life ticks along quite nicely. You dont need to agree with liberalism but you also dont need to panic about it. MetcalfeM 17:54, 26 February 2008 (EST)

The only people who are in "panic" are the liberals who talk, talk, talk and even vandalize this site. There is no "panic" by conservatives here. We do tell the truth, and the panic is by liberals in response to that truth. It makes them uncomfortable and they are not used to hearing it.--Aschlafly 18:14, 26 February 2008 (EST)

AAAAAAAARRRRGGHHHHHHH!!!!! *runs around in ever decreasing circles* --GDewey 18:17, 26 February 2008 (EST)

While I neither agree nor disagree with what you have stated above Andy (I hope using the informal "Andy is OK) all the liberal this and liberal that on this site sounds like conservative hysteria. An article on any other wiki on conservative hysteria could use conservapedia as a reference. I am aware that this is a conservative site and, as such, will point to liberal failings however the sheer number of anti-liberal content is bordering on paranioa. Articles like liberal friendship etc are a little out there. MetcalfeM 18:43, 26 February 2008 (EST)

I don't believe these articles at all constitute "conservative hysteria", but on a related note, I am minorly curious. Andy, you've created a sort of liberal exposé recently, and I was just wondering if there was any specific reason? Sorry, to be more clear - were you inspired to write this series of articles by any recent thing in particular? I hope you don't mind my asking, I'm just curious. Feebasfactor 19:50, 26 February 2008 (EST)

I am curious also. Perhaps hysteria isn't the right word but it certainly seems a little paranoid and off the wall. While you can say its not conservative hysteria I am sure many people, of all political backgrounds, would see it as a little hysterical. Personally I find it all a little odd. MetcalfeM 19:57, 26 February 2008 (EST)

The liberal comments here are becoming increasingly absurd. MetcalfeM and Feebasfactor, please try to get out more. I say that earnestly. For a straightforward (and uncontestable) entry on liberal grading to cause this kind of reaction can mean only one thing: you don't get out enough. Make some new friends and realize that, in the real world outside of public school and college campuses, conservatives outnumber liberals by a 2:1 margin in America. Spend more time with those in that that 2:1 majority, for your sake. Please.--Aschlafly 19:58, 26 February 2008 (EST)

"Uncontestable" is debatable but I am not trying to debate it. I am just curious as to why there is so much vitrol spewed about Liberals. Strange terms like liberal friendships etc exsist no where but here. I am merely commenting on how paranoid it sounds. As for getting out more and making friends...? That is a throwaway comment. I have traveled the world, have a degree in politics and made huge numbers of friends worldwide. In fact, I was formally employed by the most far-right political party in New Zealand so I have seen both sides of the fence. MetcalfeM 20:04, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Consider his grades?

This is a point that hasn't been fully mentioned yet: Dowd didn't exactly have stellar grades. With the grade based on three papers and class participation (probably 30%+30%+30%+10% breakdown) then going into the final paper with a C+ and C- record is a rather unsure matter. The second grade is also lower, which is may suggest he was not improving with the material. If he bombed the final paper for some reason (even if he was just occupied by all the coverage of the incident), he would have easily fallen into D territory, maybe even F if it was particularly bad. At most colleges I know, a D is still not a passing grade. I don't see that the evidence points clearly enough to the bias of the professor. I suggest adding a clearer example, and tried to do so myself. But when I searched for the phrase "liberal grading", the articles all seem to talk about course evaluations and grade inflation, not liberal bias affecting grades. Foxtrot 18:43, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Still waiting for a reply.

I still haven't heard a reason why the example given in the article is an example of "liberal grading." --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 22:13, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Was the student even a conservative? You only claim that the student participated in a "politically correct" activity. what do you mean by that? If you mean the party that started the whole Duke lacrosse fiasco, then the players don't seem to fit your definition of conservative. "conservatives are generally characterized by...public morality" --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 22:20, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Tim, you gotta learn more about the liberal feminist mindset. I can't explain it all in a sentence or two. I'll try to improve our entry on it. That mindset considers holding a door open for a woman to be a minor sin, and holding the kind of party that the Duke lacrosse players held to be a mortal sin. Hence the retaliation with liberal grading.--Aschlafly 22:21, 26 February 2008 (EST)

Sooooooooo, the players are conservative because they held that kind of party? Or are you saying that the professor was a feminist, and was somehow offended by the party attended by the players? Do you think that the players were the only students in the class that attended parties like that? I think that after the original response to the event, (the players being assumed guilty, the whole lacrosse team being lumped into one group as essentially criminals, etc.) the 88 teachers were trying to make a point (that they believed the players guilty) and this particular teacher was trying to punish the players for being involved in the whole thing. The grades were not given because the teacher was biased against the player's political views (which could be liberal for all we know) but because the teacher didn't like the players being involved in the party.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by CPAdmin1 (talk)

Tim, the teachers (like the whole world) knew the players were not guilty of the crimes charged. But liberal grading was applied because the players committed another crime of being politically incorrect. And that illustrates liberal grading.--Aschlafly 23:22, 26 February 2008 (EST)

I don't think that the grading was just about holding a (possibly) politically incorrect party. If that were true, why don't all the other students who attend parties like that get discriminated against? --Tim (CPAdmin1)^{talk Vote in my NEW polls} 23:25, 26 February 2008 (EST)

This page is a travesty

The only evidence to support the things said at the top of this article is ONE EXAMPLE. Everything else is just hearsay and supposition. The article should be removed immediately. This is the equivalent of putting up an article saying that "All Christian Evangelists are homosexual drug users" and citing as proof the example of Ted Haggard. Daphnea 10:57, 26 June 2008 (EDT)