Difference between revisions of "Talk:Luke 1-8 (Translated)"

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==Gender-Neutral Language==
 
==Gender-Neutral Language==
 
While I'm all for retaining gender-specific language where it exists in the original text, I feel that there are some assumptions being made here that don't really reflect that.  In 3:4, for example, the Greek Bible makes it a 'voice in the wilderness', *not* specifically a man's voice. [[User:AdeleM|AdeleM]] 23:06, 6 November 2009 (EST)
 
While I'm all for retaining gender-specific language where it exists in the original text, I feel that there are some assumptions being made here that don't really reflect that.  In 3:4, for example, the Greek Bible makes it a 'voice in the wilderness', *not* specifically a man's voice. [[User:AdeleM|AdeleM]] 23:06, 6 November 2009 (EST)
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:Good point.  Where are you on the expression "sons of God"?  All modern versions change that to "children of God," presumably to gender-neutralize it (degender -- a new Conservapedia word?).  But "children of God" has a very, very different meaning from the Greek and from "sons of God."  "Children of God" means less accountability, less responsibility, and lower expectations than what the Greek indicates.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:58, 7 November 2009 (EST)

Revision as of 12:58, 7 November 2009

Luke 2:1 -- απογραφεσθαι

απογραφεσθαι can mean either a tax or a census. From the writings of Josephus, it appears that this απογραφεσθαι caused an uprising in Judea, which implies taxation (why would a census cause protests?), so I have translated here as taxation.

But so many sources translate this word as a census, so does anybody know of a reason for this? If so, let me know here and we can discuss and possibly change it. JacobB 18:54, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

Luke 3:1

In this particular instances, as weird as the word is to us today, each of the men identified including Herod Antipas is τετρααρχοῦντος - tetrarch. A tetrarch was one who ruled over 1/4 of the empire and was subordinate only to the emperor. King gets used frequently incorrectly used to refer to Herod Antipas in translating this term, but he was not a king and Judea was not a kingdom. I am using the word governor instead of king, which isn't controversial when used for Pilate, who had exactly the same role as Herod Antipas - he was tetrarch of Judea. But perhaps there is a better word than both governor or king. Cambrian 22:25, 28 October 2009 (EDT)

Chapter 3 Verse 12

Master is the original, Teacher is the modern version. Jesus asked his disciples "Who do they say I am?" I am thinking the replacement should be "Rabbi" (a respected authority) or "Great Prophet" (some say Elijah, some say John the Baptist). --Jpatt 12:38, 30 October 2009 (EDT)

The Greek is 'didaskale' (teacher, instructor). KJV uses 'master' (a very common term for a teacher pre 20th century). I like the old-fashioned 'master', but I think 'teacher' is better understood these days. I think 'Rabbi' is diverging a little from the original word, and 'Great Prophet' is simply not what the original text says *and* breaks the relationship described between Jesus as teacher and his disciples/students. AdeleM 17:37, 6 November 2009 (EST)
Teacher has different connotations today, as in tenured (and very liberal) public school officials or professors. It may work in some contexts, but I doubt all. Perhaps additional words should be considered: "Sir", "Boss", "Mister", "Coach", others?--Andy Schlafly 18:34, 6 November 2009 (EST)
"Mentor" is the most accurate that comes off the top of my head. Perhaps even "guide" or something along those lines? -- Jeffrey W. LauttamusDiscussion 18:39, 6 November 2009 (EST)
I see where you're coming from, but I'm not too comfortable with with using words that are further from the original Greek-- teacher may not be perfect, and it may come with some baggage, but it's still the best fit for 'didaskale'. AdeleM 22:25, 6 November 2009 (EST)
Mentor is a very good idea. But it's not used much as a salutation or title, is it?--Andy Schlafly 18:57, 6 November 2009 (EST)
I don't think it's used much as a title, but I think in the context it would work. Some examples:
"Tax collectors asked to be baptized, saying, 'Mentor, what should we do?'"
"And His students awoke Jesus, saying, 'Mentor, we will drown.'"
"...and Peter said 'Mentor, the crowd is thick, and presses against you...'"
19:09, 6 November 2009 (EST)
I think you're right that "Mentor" does work in many contexts. Great idea!
One basic translational point is that I don't think the same word should be translated the same way in all uses. I think most would agree, yet it is easy to find superficial criticisms of translating the same Greek word differently in different places. It is a weakness of the word-for-word translations of the NASB and ESV to try to avoid that (baseless) criticism.--Andy Schlafly 19:17, 6 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent)I think that along with word translation comes translation of the context that word was used in. "Mentor" may be a good translation in some areas, but perhaps in others a more formal, subservient "Sir" or "Master" would be in order. I'm not very well-versed in Biblical translation, but I would be more than happy to assist in minute details like this! -- Jeffrey W. LauttamusDiscussion 19:24, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Gender-Neutral Language

While I'm all for retaining gender-specific language where it exists in the original text, I feel that there are some assumptions being made here that don't really reflect that. In 3:4, for example, the Greek Bible makes it a 'voice in the wilderness', *not* specifically a man's voice. AdeleM 23:06, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Good point. Where are you on the expression "sons of God"? All modern versions change that to "children of God," presumably to gender-neutralize it (degender -- a new Conservapedia word?). But "children of God" has a very, very different meaning from the Greek and from "sons of God." "Children of God" means less accountability, less responsibility, and lower expectations than what the Greek indicates.--Andy Schlafly 13:58, 7 November 2009 (EST)