Talk:Martin Luther

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Just some minor cleaning

I moved the line about his passing and his latter years in poor health to the very end of the article. It seems more logical there than its original spot; closing a paragraph that did not relate to his date of death. Also edited the wording somewhat. No actual content has been changed, though in the beginning of the article I did add the month and day of his birth and death, rather than leave it at simply the years. Hope this is acceptable :) Jros83 20:39, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

As a side note, I question the "leader of the German Reformation" line. To me, it would seem more apropriate to indicate his status as one of the early movers of the Protestant Reformation as a whole, considering he had a major impact outside Germany as well as internally. It would seem to me that that would be of more import than his specific role in Germany. However I certainly will not go ahead and make such a change without a general consenus. I may after all be missing a good point on why it should not be changed, and I would love to be better informed :) Jros83 20:44, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Luther and homosexuality

Where's the best place to mention Luther's stance on homosexuality?

  • "The vice of the Sodomites is an unparalleled enormity. It departs from the natural passion and desire, planted into nature by God, according to which the male has a passionate desire for the female. Sodomy craves what is entirely contrary to nature. Whence comes this perversion? Without a doubt it comes from the devil. After a man has once turned aside from the fear of God, the devil puts such great pressure upon his nature that he extinguishes the fire of natural desire and stirs up another, which is contrary to nature." [1]

Here, or at Homosexuality? --Ed Poor Talk 20:32, 11 August 2007 (EDT)

It might be good to start showing some of Luther's beliefs. He was certainly a prolific writer. It could be a good time for overall cleanup as well. Currently, we don't have any subsections, and that makes the work as a whole more difficult to read and follow. Learn together 01:40, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

Rumor or truth

We need to deal with the controversy over whether Luther took refuge from a thunderstorm - or whether he "nailed" the 95 Theses to the church door. An edit war is no way to deal with this. --Ed Poor Talk 22:27, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

Controversy? Eeek! MattM 22:31, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

References Section is a disgrace

If you can't understand why the reference section is a pathetic joke, I'm not going to waste m time trying to tell you.

Then don't tell us; just help us make it better. Learn together 17:02, 23 May 2008 (EDT)


Why was this reverted? BHarlan 12:03, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Do you see any interest in the category you tried to create? We try to classify people based on who they are and what they are most known for, not a perceived view of how they might have viewed any given group or position. So we have people categorized as Democrats, but not categorized as Anti-Republicans. Learn together 20:34, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
Although Category:Anti-Semitism appeared as red, I didn't create it. There were some things in there when I added it to this article. I don't know why it appeared red.
Also, though I generally agree with you, Anti-Semitism has an article, and is a recognized concept, while Anti-Republicanism has not and is not.
In addition, I don't think this is just a "perceived view" of how Martin Luther saw the Jews. He unambiguously called for their demise.
Finally, some people are against things for which there is no simple "pro" category. It's simpler to describe Hitler as anti-Jew that as pro-Jew-murder. BHarlan 21:47, 15 October 2008 (EDT)
An article can be valid without needing to be a category, for the reasons stated above. With Hitler he would have to be categorized as Anti-Semitic, Anti-Gypsy, Anti-Jehovah's Witness, Anti-Homosexual, Anti-Slavic, etc. We find it's best to avoid that.
Luther was a very prolific writer who was easily hurt and exploded with the pen. He attacked many groups and people in moments of anger. He reached his hand out to the Jews believing that they had been shunned and mistreated by Catholicism and would embrace Christianity if it was freely offered to them. When it wasn't accepted he reacted as he had done many times with others. It was a very small part of his writings and apparently didn't mean much to him as he had power in Germany at the time and never put his quick written attack into any practice in reality. His writings in regard to the Peasant's Revolt would have more disasterous results when they were used to bring about actual violence -- a fact that would haunt him for the rest of his life. Learn together 17:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
! Part of this article was copied from Citizendium but the copied text was originally written by me, RJJensen (under the name Richard Jensen) and does not include major contributions made by others on that site. Conservlogo.png
RJJensen 02:33, 18 October 2009 (EDT)