Talk:Natural disaster

WOW. Um, I know we got a bias an all, but I think this is a bit much. I don't think God slings tornadoes around when he gets peeved.--Elamdri 11:26, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Not sure how you could know that, but okay. If everything is from God, how can it be a "Natural" disaster. As a young Christian, taking the language back is very important to me. Flippin 11:29, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Glad that you agree. Christian language is important.--Sherman 11:31, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Christian language is important, but understanding actual scientific causation is probably more important to your ultimate educational goals :-/ -AmesG 11:32, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Your version of the article is a disgrace. It's not 'simply called' act of god. That's the ver nature of 'natural disasters'.--Sherman 11:36, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

If God exists, wouldn't it be God's work that defines natural? Wouldn't everything God does be natural? What

I just don't think that God is such an immanent being that everything that happens can be attributed to him. I really doubt that God himself is personally responsible for every natural disaster that occurs and they are all conscious decisions that he makes. Rather, I believe they are a part of the mechanics that control how the world in which God made functions.--Elamdri 11:33, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Truly our God is an awesome God. If HE chooses to hurl tornadoes, HE surely can. When we look past HIS works, like Hurricane Katrina and that monsoon in Sri Lanka, we don't learn from HIM. Calling something a "Natural Disaster" takes away the force of GOD's perfect love.Flippin 11:34, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

God created systems that do the work for him, if you believe in him. Saying he does everything directly is like saying the President makes your plumbing work.-AmesG 11:35, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

God's perfect love is to kill thousands of people with a super storm? I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to that belief.--Elamdri 11:38, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

By that logic, GOD is a so-called natural disaster. I don't think you should say that. Youm could be banned.Flippin 11:37, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

So you also don't 'buy' Noah? I thought it's a general agreement here to take the bible literally? Or am I mistaken?--Sherman 11:43, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

What the...!? Flesh that out so it makes sense. Aaaaand go! Also don't threaten me.-AmesG 11:38, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Wasn't threatening, or didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way. But if everything comes from GOD, then it must be evidence of HIS perfect love. I know in my heart that even the soldiers who die in Iraq, fighting the muslims, are part of HIS ultimate plan. A natural disaster must be an act of GOD--a hurricane, a tornado, dinosaurs, wars and blessings. It is all part of the plan. Saying anything is natural is like going into a parking lot full of shopping carts and saying they must have gotten there by chance. Yes, at that particular second they are, but they were created by people, and thus by GOD so their placement is part of GOD's perfect will. We Christians must retalliate when so-called atheists and others try to steal the language from us. Flippin 11:45, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

First of all, the US is fighting the Iraqi insurgents. NOT the Muslims. There's a biiiiiig difference. You should look up the distinction somewhere else, perhaps on [www.wikipedia.com|Wikipedia]? Second of all, again, the distinction is between the original cause and the ultimate cause. God, to you, is the original cause, but he is not the ultimate cause, even if disasters are in his plan. Again, it's like saying the President makes your water run.-AmesG 11:47, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Never mind that your interpretation of "God's Will" basically absolves anyone of taking repsonsibility for their actions. "Sure I punched that guy in the face and took his car. But it's all part of God's plan." --Dave3172 11:50, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Would GOD allow it otherwise? Flippin 11:51, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

So if you do poorly on your homework, not your fault. Good point, Dave.-AmesG 11:52, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

The only problem is your beliefs rely on God to be an immanent being. What if I believe God to be a transcendent being?--Elamdri 11:53, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

This is the best example I can think of right now. Lets say I design a computer program to create and manage a society of people, ala simcity. In the background of this program, I have it set to roll a set of ten dice every second. Each time the program rolls ten dice of the same number, the program randomly selects 2 coordinates on the map. At one coordinate, the computer creates a tornado, which follows a straight path to the other coordinate, at which point, it disappears. Now, I have created the system in question. However, the individual tornado itself is not direct action on my part, but rather a natural phenomenon of the system that I created. If I were to die while the computer system was running, it would still have tornadoes, despite my not being alive anymore. Thats basically how I think the world functions. God made it, then sat back and watched.--Elamdri 12:01, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Why should he just sit back and watch? While your scenario is possible (technically) it's not convincing.--Sherman 12:04, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Why else? Too see what they create?--Elamdri 12:06, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Please Stop the Ridicule

I did not come here to debate and be ridiculed for my belief. Please do not ridicule Christians with stronger faith than some others. Flippin 11:54, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I can't help debating you. It's all part of God's Will...--Dave3172 12:17, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Showing you logical fallacies is no insulting you. It's a common problem that even the admins of this site don't understand.-AmesG 11:55, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Claiming 'stronger faith than some others' could itself be considered attacking the belief of those others. Tsumetai 11:57, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

So claiming a strong faith attacks others, or threatens them? I thought Conservapedia was a place for Christians to come and be welcomed, not derided for their faith. I don't have time to create logical enthymemes for you, but GOD is the reason for everything, noy just what some people want HIM to promote. Some people use GOD like a slogan to be hayled out hen they see fit. I think GOD has a place in everyting around us. Flippin 12:00, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

You didn't just claim a strong faith, you claimed that it was stronger than others. The obvious implication was that those others are those Christians who happen to disagree with you on this point. Tsumetai 12:07, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Still: God caused the great flood, why shouldn't he cause a hurrican?--Sherman 12:00, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I am unconvinced by angry tirades. Only logic works well.-AmesG 12:03, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I wasn't the one threatening you. Concerning logic: What about the flood? You never answered that one.--Sherman 12:07, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

The "tirade" thing was directed at Flippin, not you, Sherm, sorry for the confusion. But, I would say that he didn't cause the flood, but that's because I'm not a biblical literalist, and I don't think that Noah actually saved all life on Earth. But, if you believe in God, certainly some acts are acts of God. But it goes too far to say that everything happening in the world is an act of God. Certainly they're in accord with his plan, but not directly caused.-AmesG 12:15, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Flippin, please note that AmesG tends to have "a chip on his shoulder" and is ready to argue (on ALL points). And AmesG, Gee, give us all a break, dude. (Though I did like the analogy of the President being my plumber, [turn on the light switch to get the hot water on], though I'd rather him do the gardening.) ANYWAY...

"Stuff happens," to paraphrase the vulgar bumper-sticker: We don't know if there even is a "why" when stuff happens; we can know what leads up to stuff happening, we can see inside tornadoes and project with a fair degree of accuracy where they're going to go next but the philosophical reasons why tornadoes happen will be argued until the end of time.

I believe it error to conclude that just because we can know what happens to create a tornado we can dispense with God and any plan He might have with regard to that tornado.

MOO --Cracker^talk 12:18, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Free Will

My problem is this. If God is immanent like Flip believes him to be, then he has a hand in everything we do. Thus, we do not have free will, because everything we do is an Act of God. If we don't have free will, then what is the point of our existence? Why did God create us if not to see what would happen if you gave a creation free will?--Elamdri 12:05, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

This means solve the problems of hundreds of years of philosophy. We have proof in the bible that god interfers with life on earth. The question here is how far his influence reaches.--Sherman 12:10, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

ABSOLUTELY! Thank you sherm Flippin 12:12, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

If there's a legitimate question on that point, then it's hardly an atheist term, is it? Tsumetai 12:13, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

I can understand God interfering to guide the course of humanity. I can also see him interfering to correct grave injustices. But I can't seem him interfering in the everyday lives of humanity. Also, if you subscribe to Judaism, they believe that after the second destruction of the Temple, God left the earth and became a transcendent being, rather than an immanent one.--Elamdri 12:14, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

If there is no free will how can we sin?-AmesG 12:15, 21 March 2007 (EDT)