Difference between revisions of "Talk:New Zealand mosque shooting"

Revision as of 19:23, March 20, 2019

This looks pretty good so far. Just one comment--the left likes to refer to mass murderers as "gunmen" or "shooters," as if to emphasize the fact that a gun was involved. However, might I suggest that we favor simply calling them attackers or murderers? It terrorists don't have access to guns (which is very unlikely to happen, regardless of the laws) they will just use bombs, swords, knives, clubs, crossbows, or whatever else they can. As we have seen in the US, even ordinary pressure cookers work distressingly well.
Overall, nice work! --DavidB4 ^(TALK) 17:06, 17 March 2019 (EDT)

Yes, correct. There will be subsections (right now, one on Pewdiepie and another on gun rights). I'm seeking to develop the full Marxist basis of the Manifesto, then move on to gun rights, both in NZ & the US, probably beginning with the Prime Minister's reaction in NZ first, which can be tied to a Marxist agenda. Any suggestions or content, feel free to add. If it's on gun rights, just begin a subhead ==Gun rights== and put it in. The leftwing Marxist aspect may keep me busy for awhile.

I should add, we have here for the first time in a longtime a new concept, "leftwing white supremacist," which is an opportunity for further development. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 17:20, 17 March 2019 (EDT)

Okay, thanks! I knew you were on track, but this sounds like a good plan. You know a great deal more about this than me, so I will probably leave you to it. I just wasn't too keen on some of the terminology I was seeing. I must say, you now have me wondering how "Pewdiepie" ties into this. I consider it a matter of pride that I have never looked him up, as I understand he serves up piles of rubbish. Perhaps I should risk soiling my eyeballs and actually take a look though. --DavidB4 ^(TALK) 17:35, 17 March 2019 (EDT)

May have been an atheist and Anders Behring Breivik

"Answering whether Brenton Tarrant is a Christian is, in his words, “complicated. When I know, I will tell you.” The complication may be a semantic distinction derived from Breivik’s notion that it is possible to be a cultural Christian without believing in God. Breivik wrote that his followers “don’t need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist.”[1]

Brenton Tarrant may have been an atheist/agnostic.Conservative (talk) 20:20, 17 March 2019 (EDT)

Thus far we've avoided mentioning the shooter's name in mainspace, which I support at this time. The issues go far beyond the mental state or ideology of the perpetrator. While I encourage writing a section on the shooter/gunman/attacker/killer or however we resolve to refer to him/them, we should not refer to him by name in this article, at least for now. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 20:48, 17 March 2019 (EDT)

At this point, they do it for publicity, so it sounds like a good policy to keep the name quite for now, though I'm sure the MSM does not agree. --DavidB4 ^(TALK) 21:24, 17 March 2019 (EDT)

Actually, in NZ it's illegal to release his name or show his face. So the only way NZ'ers get that info is from American media. Using his name is a dead give away the information is coming from American media, which obviously is uninformed and slanted. I'd like to get more information on his time in Europe - which motivated the shooting - before miscoloring it with his intended effect on US domestic politics. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 23:53, 17 March 2019 (EDT)

Edit explanation: Adern and communism and/or communist influence in NZ politics

Ardern is absolutely not a communist. Left wing yes but far from a communist. New Zealand is, and remains, one of the freest and easiest places to do business in the western world. We have a neo-libral economic system and that isn't changing. Also the deputy PM and coalition party is a Conservative party. Secondly NZ has no citizen gun rights enshrined at all in any legal sense whatsoever so is at the whim of any government of the day. These are basic facts. JohnSelway (talk) 01:43, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Nuff said. She's more than just a communist mass murder denier. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 03:02, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Here is an interesting article from the New Zealand Herald: China's communists fund Jacinda Ardern's Labour Party: What the United States Congress was told.

China operates in the shadows. "Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate." - Sun Tzu.Conservative (talk) 04:13, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Ardern is not a communist, Rob. No matter how many times you want to say it, she isn't at all. NZ has a robust capitalist economy and Ardern has made no changes to this despite being already halfway through her term. JohnSelway (talk) 14:45, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Ardern's leadership doesn't even match the Conservapedia definition of communist. Yes she is left-wing but NZ is a democracy with free elections and a free economy - none of whihc has changed under Ardern and none of which has even been proposed to change under Ardern. JohnSelway (talk) 14:48, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Also the Heritage Foundation, hardly a liberal organization puts NZ's freedom of business ranking above the US. | Communist? you say? This has not changed under Ardern nor will it change. JohnSelway (talk) 14:52, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Ardern's advocacy of violating the fundamental human rights of innocent New Zealanders and promise to implement repressive gun laws places her squarely in the category of a communist. We haven't even discussed her communist carbon emissions rhetoric or tax policy yet. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 16:55, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

You have no idea what you are talking about. Guns are not a human rights issue in NZ, no further gun laws have yet been implemented nor will be implemented without due process. Ardern cannot just "ban guns". It doesn't work like that in NZ. All she does is propose a law change, it goes to parliament and will be brought to what is called a select committee. The select committee then listens to the public on what they want to do, which is then passed on to the government to vote on. I'm sorry but you are completely wrong and obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The same with tax-policy. Ardern has set up committees to investigate tax policy which reports to the government and is voted on - again with input from the public. She does not make law by fiat and has to also satisfy her coalition party which is a COnservative leaning party. She is not a communist. JohnSelway (talk) 17:49, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

No one in the right-wing opposition party thinks she is a communist so what makes you more knowledgeable about this than NZ's right-wing opposition who sit and talk to the Ardern government every day? JohnSelway (talk) 17:53, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Not to mention the only proposal is to ban semi-autos which are already extremely hard to get without rigorous background checks and are illegal to possess with anything outside of a 7 shot magazine. She isn't banning guns, only proposing a ban on semi-autos (which may get voted down anyway). Stick with things you know. JohnSelway (talk) 17:58, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Human rights know no particular nation state - that's why they are called human rights, they are universal. Communists deny universal human rights, which is exactly what Ardern did. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 18:24, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Ahh. no ROb. Listen (read) properly. She hasn't done anything but propose a law change. It still has to pass parliament and a vote. So you are still wrong. Do human rights specifically mean Semi-Autos? Ardern is not proposing to ban all guns and she isn't proposing a blanket ban on Semi-autos either - all she said was "NZ gun laws will change". So, you are still wrong. JohnSelway (talk) 18:41, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Read what you just wrote. She proposed attacking a fundamental human right. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 19:29, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

which fundamental human right? JohnSelway (talk) 20:00, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

The right given by the Creator to all human beings to keep and bear arms. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 20:05, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Two things wrong with that. Firstly your personal feelings about your creator and what rights have been granted apply only to you and your beliefs - NZ is a secular society so your beliefs end with you. Secondly no one has suggested taking away anyone's right to bear arms - only that there is going to be a law change. No one is taking anyone's rights to bear arms away. So you are wrong on both counts. JohnSelway (talk) 20:17, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Bingo. Now you're understanding why Jacinda Ardern is a Communist. (a) She beleives religion is the opiate of the masses. (b) She does not respect my God given rights. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 20:25, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Religion and NZ Politics have been separate for maybe 100 years or so. Not one of the last 4 PM's have been religious - are they all communists?. Secondly you are not a NZ Citizen so your rights are irrelevant. Lastly - no one is taking guns away. SO you are still wrong on every count. JohnSelway (talk) 20:36, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

God is kinda like climate change; it's not a matter of opinion. Does Jacinda Ardern pretend to be some kinda of person of faith? Has she ever condemned socialist mass murder? Should anyone be surprised the city of Christchurch and the NZ regime now has big social problems? RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 20:41, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Don't change the subject. Ardern is not taking guns away. She is not a communist. You are wrong on this count. I believe in God. Ardern isn't taking away my rights no more than not letting me have a tank is taking away my rights. She is not a communist. JohnSelway (talk) 20:48, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Cat's out of the bag. All America will see the commie scum for what she is. We know what "change" is a codeword for. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 21:24, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

So you're just asserting she is a communist now because you've nothing to base it on. NZ is a free market capitalist society with free elections, a free press, extremely low crime and almost no corruption. It is a democracy with free elections every 3 years. Arddern runs a left-wing party in coalition with a traditional conservative party (the leader of which holds the Deputy PM spot). No one is taking the guns away and Ardern is not a communist. And that's a wrap. JohnSelway (talk) 21:29, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Don't you find it odd that Tarrant wanted "change,' and Ardern responded immediately promising "change"?

They must have been in it together then. JohnSelway (talk) 21:29, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

I wouldn't call her a communist, as that's an overly-specific term. "Marxist" or "cultural Marxist" are more appropriate. --1990'sguy (talk) 18:12, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

Racism and gun control

We've reached an interesting point in the gun control debate. In researching this article you find the usual stuff that claims the 2nd Amendment was only written to protect whites from blacks, etc., then a boatload of leftist articles written during the Obama era claiming the 2nd Amendment was never intended to apply to Blacks - the subtext being that the Second Amendment is outdated cause racism no longer exists.

This is an important point that needs to exploited to the hilt - if white supremacy is indeed on the rise, and Black gun ownership has increased in the Trump era, why do liberal communists want to disarm Blacks? RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 12:00, 18 March 2019 (EDT)

And Again....

Firstly NZ doesn't have a "socialist regime" - it is a coalition government made up of a left wing party, a traditional conservative party and the Green party. The government isnt a single entity - it is a coalition and most certainly not a 'regime'. The government cannot just make laws without asking with its coalition parties for agreement and even then it must go to a vote. NZ is a free market society. More so than the US. Secondly - NZ's don't carry guns around so asking them to hand in guns (and it isn’t ‘guns’ - it’s just semi autos) makes no difference to the risk of terrorism. JohnSelway (talk) 00:16, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

Jacinda is part of a long established international conspiracy - Socialists International. 01:25, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

Ardern can be what she wants personally. One she thing can’t do is run the government on her own and by decree. Nor is the government socialist. JohnSelway (talk) 01:36, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

Rob, I don’t think you know what totalitarian means. A country with free elections, a free economy, free press and freedom of movement is, by definition, not totalitarian. JohnSelway (talk) 02:18, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

JohnSelway, Ardern is going to collectivize the sheep/dairy industries soon. Then the show trials and forced public confessions will begin. You were warned!!!!! Flee your country now while you still can!!!! All her talk about listening and kindness is just commie propaganda!!!! She recently gifted her Bible to a movement in a public ceremony.[2] Obviously, this is because she never reads her Bible!!!!

All her godless, commie scheming is for naught. NZ faces a future of desecularization. See: Postsecularism and New Zealand in the 21st century

I hope this clarifies things for you. :)Conservative (talk) 04:44, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

On a more serious note, NZ had a world ranking of 48th in 2017 as far as per capita income. It could use more capitalism/less government and more of the Protestant work ethic.Conservative (talk) 05:53, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

NZ's government is totalitarian in the fact that the government is "at the top of the food chain" -- there's nothing holding it back or limiting it. It may not be fully exercising its power right now, but it has the potential to in the future. The U.S. government, on the other hand, is expressly limited under the Constitution and natural law. There's a power above the U.S. government which it must answer to -- first God (natural law, unalienable rights that apply to all people at all times) and then the U.S. Constitution, which, unlike other constitutions, does not enable but holds back the government.

Second, NZ's government is socialist in that regard -- government is supreme, no such thing as natural law, government can restrict important human freedoms. Also, the Labor and Green parties are clearly socialist. NZ First is not, but it's influence in the government is tiny, and it gave up its support for a referendum to reverse the government's ban on spanking to be in the government. --1990'sguy (talk) 08:53, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

there's nothing holding it back or limiting it Yes - there is. They can pass nothing without securing the votes in parliament and there are elections every 3 years. The Coalition parties can withdraw support at any time also. Plus the governor general has the power to dissolve parliament. You need to learn more about the NZ system of government. JohnSelway (talk) 14:53, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

What you're saying is that the only check on the government's power is the government -- thus, if 51% of parliament, the governor general, and 51% of New Zealanders (mob rule) want to deny one's natural rights to them (religious freedom, free speech, self-defense rights, etc.), there's nothing stopping the government. There's nothing truly holding the New Zealand government (and the governments of most countries) from denying people their rights -- no adherence to natural law, no explicit, unalienable rights in the NZ constitution that no government can ever deny no matter what 51% of government officials or the mob think. --1990'sguy (talk) 15:23, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

NZ is run by an anti-God, anti-capitalist, socialist Satanic cult today. The same as control the DNC in the US and the EU. The fact that Ardern was president of an international Satanic cult is undeniable. Jacindamania confirms is cultish origins and aspects. These socialist cult members are anti-democratic. It is core to their agenda. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 14:54, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

Now you are just being silly. JohnSelway (talk) 14:58, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

What? Are you a Social holocaust denier? You're putting yourself in danger of being labeled an extremist. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 15:00, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

None of this is right

NZ is not totalitarian - NZ is a free market economy. NZ has freedom of the press, freedom of association and free elections - by definition NZ is not totalitarian. There is no "cult-dominated parliament" (whatever that means). Of the three other people arrested one has already been released because they had nothing to do with it and the other 2 are still being held but probably have nothing to do with the massacre either. The government is only asking for semi-auto and has no right to bear arms in law. No one has compared it to the Reichstag fire or the Enabling Act of 1934 except you here at Conservapedia. Everything you have written is wrong and the longer this goes for the more wrong you get it.

NZ isn't totalitarian. The maniacs in control of its government today are, RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 14:55, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

Uh, no they aren't. We have elections next. Free elections - that hasn't changed. JohnSelway (talk) 14:57, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

The leftwing "change" Tarrant, Ardern, and Obama are so fond of begins with an Enabling Act that seizes guns and imposes harsh penalties on a free press and distribution of the video of the shooting. RobS^{Deep Six the Deep State!} 15:03, 20 March 2019 (EDT)

No one has seized any guns. NZ is a free market economy with freedom of association, freedom of press and free elections - all enshrined in a Bill of Rights. It is not totalitarian. NZ has nothing to do with the distribution of the video of the shooting. Take that up with Youtube, Facebook etc. JohnSelway (talk) 15:05, 20 March 2019 (EDT)