Difference between revisions of "Talk:North American Indians"

From Conservapedia
Jump to: navigation, search
(Tribes: new section)
 
Line 8: Line 8:
  
 
I tried to give at least one tribe for each cultural region, but I couldn't think of a suitably prominent representative for the Subarctic. Apparently the Ojibwa are counted among the Subarctic tribes, but also among the Northeastern (where I'd have put them) and even the Plains tribes. Should they be added, and if so, where? Under all three headings? [[User:Yoritomo|Yoritomo]] 00:22, 12 December 2009 (EST)
 
I tried to give at least one tribe for each cultural region, but I couldn't think of a suitably prominent representative for the Subarctic. Apparently the Ojibwa are counted among the Subarctic tribes, but also among the Northeastern (where I'd have put them) and even the Plains tribes. Should they be added, and if so, where? Under all three headings? [[User:Yoritomo|Yoritomo]] 00:22, 12 December 2009 (EST)
 +
 +
==Accounts of Indians==
 +
 +
There could be a separate page for the praying Indians, including more on how they saw each other. I am certain that as with all group, Indian culture varied one from another, but i think  the account of Cotton Mather is different that what might hear on NPR:
 +
 +
The following acount of them is abstracted from Dr. Mather. "Know then (he says, in his usual manner) that these doleful creatures are the veriest ruins of mankind. They live in a country full of metals; but these shiftless 'Vidians were never owners of so much as a [knife] till we came among them; their name [for the] Englishman was a 'Knifeman.' They live in a country where we now have all the conveniences of life; but as for them, their housing is nothing but a few mats tied about poles fastened into the earth, where a good fire is their bed clothes in the coldest season; their clothing is but the skin of a beast; their diet has not a greater dainty, than a spoonful of parched meal with a spoonful of water, which will strengthen them to travel for a day together. Their physic, except a few odd specifics with which some of them encounter certain cases, is scarcely any thing beyond a hot house, or a Powaw; their hot house is a little cave, where, after they have terribly heated it, a crew of them go and sit and sweat and smoke for an hour together, and then immediately run into some cold adjacent brook, without the least mischief to them; but in most of their dangerous distempers, a Powaw must be sent for, i. e. a Priest; who roars and howls and uses magical ceremonies over the sick man, and will be well paid for it when he is done; if this does not effect the cure, ' the man's time is come, and there's an end.'
 +
 +
Their way of living is infinitely barbarous; the men are most abominably slothful, making their poor squaws, or wives, to plant, and dress, and barn, and beat their corn and build their .wigwams or houses for them. Their chief employment, when they when condescend to any, is that of hunting; wherein they will go out some scores if not hundreds, and drive all before them. They continue in a place till they have burnt up all the woods thereabouts, and then they pluck up stakes to follow the wood which they cannot fetch home unto themselves; hence when they inquire about the English, 'why came they hither?' they themselves very learnedly determine the case, 'it was because they wanted firing.' No arts are understood among them, unless just so far as to maintain their brutish conversation, which is little more than is to be found among the very beavers upon our stream?
 +
 +
"Their division of time, is by sleeps, moons, and winters; and, by lodging abroad, they have somewhat observed the motion of stars; among which it has been surprising unto me to find that they have always called Charles's wain by the name of Paukuunawaw, or the Bear, which is the name whereby Europeans also have distinguished it. Moreover, they have little, if any traditions among them worthy of our notice; and reading and writing is altogether unknown to them, though there is a rock or two in the country that has unaccountable characters engraven upon it. All the religion they have, amounts unto thus much; they believe that there are many gods, who made and own the several nations of the world; of which a certain great God in the South-west regions of the heavens, bears the greatest figure.
 +
 +
"They believe that every remarkable creature has a peculiar God within, or about it; there is with them a Sun-god, a Moon-god, and the like; and they cannot conceive but that the Fire must be a kind of god, inasmuch as a spark of it will soon produce very strange effects. They believe that when any good or ill happens to them, there is the favour or the anger of a god expressed in it; and hence, as in a time of calamity, they keep a dance, or a day of extravagant, ridiculous devotions to their God: so in a time of prosperity, they likewise have a feast, wherein they also make present one to another.
 +
 +
"Finally, they believe that their chief God Kichtan, or Kautantowit, made a man and a woman [out] of a stone; which upon a dislike, he broke to pieces, and made another man and a women of a tree, which were the fountains of all man kind; and, that we all have in us immoral souls, which, if we were godly, shall go to a splendid entertainment with Kautantowit; bill otherwise we must wander about in a restless horror forever. But if you say to them anything of a resurrection, they will reply unto you, ' I shall never believe it.'
 +
 +
"When they have any weighty undertaking before them, it is an usual thing for them to to have their assemblies, wherein they worship the devil. This was the miserable people which our Eliot propounded unto himself the saving of! And he had a double work incumbent on him; he was to make men of them, ere he could hope to see them saints; they must be civilized ere they could be christianized. He could not as Gregory, once of our nation, see any thing angelical to bespeak his labours for their eternal welfare; all among them was diabolical. To think of raising a number of these hideous creatures unto the elevations of our holy religion, must argue more than common or little sentiments in the undertaker; but the faith of an Eliot could encounter it."
 +
 +
As regards Englishmen, in response to their question, "Whether Englishmen were ever at any time so ignorant of God and Jesus Christ as themselves?," Eliot answered,
 +
 +
"When we perceived the root and reach of this question, we  gave them this answer; That there are two sorts of Englishmen; some are bad and naughty, and live wickedly and basely (describing them); and these kind of Englishmen, we told them, were in a manner as ignorant of Jesus Christ as the Indians now are; but there are a second sort of Englishmen, who though for a time they lived wickedly also, like other profane and wicked English, yet, repenting of their sin?, and seeking after God and Jesus Christ, they are good men now, and know Christ and love Christ and pray to Christ, and are thankful for 1 all they have to Christ, and shall at last, when they die, go up to Heaven to Christ; and we told them that all these also were once as ignorant of God and Jesus Christ as the Indians are, but by seeking to know him, by reading his book, and hearing his word and praying to him, they now know Jesus Christ; and just so shall the Indians know him, if they so seek him also, although at the present they be extremely ignorant of him."
 +
 +
[http://books.google.com/books?id=FZ8DAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA18&dq=rev+john+elliot&output=text Memoirs of the life and character of Rev. John Eliot ..., pp 15-18, 26,27] [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 19:42, 7 December 2011 (EST)

Latest revision as of 00:42, December 8, 2011

category -

The Native Americans category was seen on the Trail of Tears article and is likely appropriate here too. --Rutm 14:53, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Self governing

I'm always torn on this aspect, so please weigh in or change. There is such a contention among res Indians about just how much self governance they are allowed - and if it should be portrayed as "we don't have much independence" or "we are now governing ourselves". As you say, policing for example, and much of the judicial system is run the way the indians choose. On the other hand, teh Feds tell the locals exactly what they can and cannot investigate on rez land, as it is "federal land" so FBI has technical jurisdiction. Much of what is seen is superficial "feel good", i think. I know that the Govt controls the sales of water and oil and mineral rights on rez owned land to ONLY the govt, then they tend to pay pennies on the dollar. I think it's quite frustrating for Indian governments around this country to feel they would have financial independence if they actually got a fair market for their resources or were able to sell those resources (plutonium, water, gold, oil) on teh open market. Still, it's a good point to realize they are sovereign nations and have taken control of much of their identity since the Indian Reorginization Act. Michelle--MHayes 18:34, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Tribes

I tried to give at least one tribe for each cultural region, but I couldn't think of a suitably prominent representative for the Subarctic. Apparently the Ojibwa are counted among the Subarctic tribes, but also among the Northeastern (where I'd have put them) and even the Plains tribes. Should they be added, and if so, where? Under all three headings? Yoritomo 00:22, 12 December 2009 (EST)

Accounts of Indians

There could be a separate page for the praying Indians, including more on how they saw each other. I am certain that as with all group, Indian culture varied one from another, but i think the account of Cotton Mather is different that what might hear on NPR:

The following acount of them is abstracted from Dr. Mather. "Know then (he says, in his usual manner) that these doleful creatures are the veriest ruins of mankind. They live in a country full of metals; but these shiftless 'Vidians were never owners of so much as a [knife] till we came among them; their name [for the] Englishman was a 'Knifeman.' They live in a country where we now have all the conveniences of life; but as for them, their housing is nothing but a few mats tied about poles fastened into the earth, where a good fire is their bed clothes in the coldest season; their clothing is but the skin of a beast; their diet has not a greater dainty, than a spoonful of parched meal with a spoonful of water, which will strengthen them to travel for a day together. Their physic, except a few odd specifics with which some of them encounter certain cases, is scarcely any thing beyond a hot house, or a Powaw; their hot house is a little cave, where, after they have terribly heated it, a crew of them go and sit and sweat and smoke for an hour together, and then immediately run into some cold adjacent brook, without the least mischief to them; but in most of their dangerous distempers, a Powaw must be sent for, i. e. a Priest; who roars and howls and uses magical ceremonies over the sick man, and will be well paid for it when he is done; if this does not effect the cure, ' the man's time is come, and there's an end.'

Their way of living is infinitely barbarous; the men are most abominably slothful, making their poor squaws, or wives, to plant, and dress, and barn, and beat their corn and build their .wigwams or houses for them. Their chief employment, when they when condescend to any, is that of hunting; wherein they will go out some scores if not hundreds, and drive all before them. They continue in a place till they have burnt up all the woods thereabouts, and then they pluck up stakes to follow the wood which they cannot fetch home unto themselves; hence when they inquire about the English, 'why came they hither?' they themselves very learnedly determine the case, 'it was because they wanted firing.' No arts are understood among them, unless just so far as to maintain their brutish conversation, which is little more than is to be found among the very beavers upon our stream?

"Their division of time, is by sleeps, moons, and winters; and, by lodging abroad, they have somewhat observed the motion of stars; among which it has been surprising unto me to find that they have always called Charles's wain by the name of Paukuunawaw, or the Bear, which is the name whereby Europeans also have distinguished it. Moreover, they have little, if any traditions among them worthy of our notice; and reading and writing is altogether unknown to them, though there is a rock or two in the country that has unaccountable characters engraven upon it. All the religion they have, amounts unto thus much; they believe that there are many gods, who made and own the several nations of the world; of which a certain great God in the South-west regions of the heavens, bears the greatest figure.

"They believe that every remarkable creature has a peculiar God within, or about it; there is with them a Sun-god, a Moon-god, and the like; and they cannot conceive but that the Fire must be a kind of god, inasmuch as a spark of it will soon produce very strange effects. They believe that when any good or ill happens to them, there is the favour or the anger of a god expressed in it; and hence, as in a time of calamity, they keep a dance, or a day of extravagant, ridiculous devotions to their God: so in a time of prosperity, they likewise have a feast, wherein they also make present one to another.

"Finally, they believe that their chief God Kichtan, or Kautantowit, made a man and a woman [out] of a stone; which upon a dislike, he broke to pieces, and made another man and a women of a tree, which were the fountains of all man kind; and, that we all have in us immoral souls, which, if we were godly, shall go to a splendid entertainment with Kautantowit; bill otherwise we must wander about in a restless horror forever. But if you say to them anything of a resurrection, they will reply unto you, ' I shall never believe it.'

"When they have any weighty undertaking before them, it is an usual thing for them to to have their assemblies, wherein they worship the devil. This was the miserable people which our Eliot propounded unto himself the saving of! And he had a double work incumbent on him; he was to make men of them, ere he could hope to see them saints; they must be civilized ere they could be christianized. He could not as Gregory, once of our nation, see any thing angelical to bespeak his labours for their eternal welfare; all among them was diabolical. To think of raising a number of these hideous creatures unto the elevations of our holy religion, must argue more than common or little sentiments in the undertaker; but the faith of an Eliot could encounter it."

As regards Englishmen, in response to their question, "Whether Englishmen were ever at any time so ignorant of God and Jesus Christ as themselves?," Eliot answered,

"When we perceived the root and reach of this question, we gave them this answer; That there are two sorts of Englishmen; some are bad and naughty, and live wickedly and basely (describing them); and these kind of Englishmen, we told them, were in a manner as ignorant of Jesus Christ as the Indians now are; but there are a second sort of Englishmen, who though for a time they lived wickedly also, like other profane and wicked English, yet, repenting of their sin?, and seeking after God and Jesus Christ, they are good men now, and know Christ and love Christ and pray to Christ, and are thankful for 1 all they have to Christ, and shall at last, when they die, go up to Heaven to Christ; and we told them that all these also were once as ignorant of God and Jesus Christ as the Indians are, but by seeking to know him, by reading his book, and hearing his word and praying to him, they now know Jesus Christ; and just so shall the Indians know him, if they so seek him also, although at the present they be extremely ignorant of him."

Memoirs of the life and character of Rev. John Eliot ..., pp 15-18, 26,27 Daniel1212 19:42, 7 December 2011 (EST)