Talk:Omar al-Bashir

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Darfur and Muslims

"In addition to villages and civilian property, the Sudan government has engaged in the systematic destruction of mosques and the desecration of articles of Islam in Darfur. The African Fur, Masalit, and Zaghawa of Darfur, unlike the African population of southern Sudan, are Muslims. Almost all Darfurians belong to the Tijaniya sect of Sufi Islam that extends from Senegal to Sudan." See:

"While those events were unfolding, two western Sudanese rebel groups--the Sudanese Liberation Army (SLA) and the Justice and Equality Movement (JEM)--launched a separate uprising in early 2003. The SLA and JEM, made up largely of black Muslims from the Fur, Masaalit, and Zaghawa tribes, resisted what they saw as government-sponsored seizures of their farmland by nomadic Arab herders. Armed militias retaliated against the rebel groups by targeting their villages, killing men and boys, raping women, razing crops, and destroying wells--while government forces reportedly provided air and logistical support--in what many observers characterize as a deliberate, coordinated campaign to drive black Sudanese out of Darfur." See: AliceBG 19:38, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

Great fact-finding! In defense of my own edit, I don't believe "African tribal people" and "non-Arab muslims" are mutually exclusive. --Jareddr 19:40, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
"African tribal people" is incredibly condescending and judgemental terminology. You want tribalism - go to a Red Sox game. And really, it's not "great fact finding" to find out a simple fact about a conflict that has been dominating the world's media for four years now...finding out that the victims in Darfur are Muslims is about as good a bit of "fact finding" as finding out the Soviets were Communists. it's in all the papers. AliceBG 19:44, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
That's an interesting response to a compliment. It wasn't I that asked you for the fact tag, just passed along a good word. And duly noted on the terminology. I was actually more interested in the particular facts you provided, as opposed to "Soviets being Communists". Let no good word go unchallenged! --Jareddr 19:49, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

Your own reference says "Arab Sudanese militias on black Sudanese villagers". Most sources don't refer to the oppressed as Muslim. I hope you don't think using 'black Sudanese villagers' is incredibly condescending and judgemental terminology also. Why do you think most sources refer to the oppressed as black and not Muslim? I think an advanced course in Sudan is needed.--jp 19:57, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

Trying to keep CP as accurate as possible. The victims in Darfur are widely seen as Black Sudanese Villagers. Some would like to see it read the oppressed are Muslims. Sources that describe the oppressed as Muslim are virtually non-existent. Highly partisan sources like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty Intl are not absolute fact based but idealogically driven and can they trusted for accuracy? --jp

How about we say non-Arabic villagers? HenryS 21:21, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

How about we say "Muslims," since that's what Conservapedia has already called them for a long time now. See our article on Sudan: "Darfur

In 2003, while the historic north-south conflict was on its way to resolution, increasing reports of attacks on civilians, especially aimed at non-Arab tribes, began to surface. A rebellion broke out in Darfur, in the extremely marginalized western Sudan, led by two rebel groups--the SLM/A and the JEM. These groups represented agrarian farmers who are mostly non-Arabized black African Muslims." AliceBG 21:29, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

I am fine with whatever is decided, Muslim, non-arabic, black. I am moving on to other articles--jp 21:40, 14 July 2008 (EDT)