Difference between revisions of "Talk:Overrated Sports Stars"

Revision as of 15:35, June 26, 2012

Some issues with this list

I see some issues with this list; as an avid follower of basketball and football, I will attempt to rebut some of the claims made in this article.

• Kobe Bryant (who the article says has not won a championship except under the coaching of Phil Jackson) has played 11 of his 16 seasons under Jackson. He was not the leader of the Lakers his first 3 seasons (that would be Shaq) and was only 17 when he was drafted, so let's write those off. Since then, he played one season (in which he was injured) under Rudy Tomjanovich, and one under Mike Brown. Hardly a large sample size. Say whatever you'd like about him, but he won two championships as the leader of the Lakers without Shaq, lifting an average supporting cast. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Bryant couldn't win after Jackson left. Enough said. Jackson has a phenomenal record of winning championships no matter whom he's coaching.--Andy Schlafly 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Jackson's been gone for ONE season. One. That is nowhere near a reliable sample size. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

For what it's worth, Michael Jordan never won a title without Phil Jackson either. I hardly think that takes away from his accomplishments. --Krayner 10:53, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

• Magic Johnson is one of the greatest, most versatile players in NBA history, and turned in the greatest Finals performance ever (Game 6 in 1980, when he had 42 points and 15 rebounds in plaee of the injured Kareem at center...as a ROOKIE). Basketball is a team sport and it is rarely fair to attribute most or all of a team's success to one player (although in rare cases that may be done, like Kobe post-Shaq); calling those teams Kareem's is patently false. They belonged to Kareem, Magic, James Worthy, Michael Cooper, Kurt Rambis, and every other player. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

What was Magic's shooting percentage??? Look, Magic with good teammates had trouble beating Bird with nobodys as teammates for the NCAA championship, and Michael Jordan nearly swept Magic when they finally met in an NBA finals.--Andy Schlafly 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Magic primarily played point guard, a position that places much more emphasis on passing. The fact that he averaged 18-20 points a game is a testament to his offensive ability. And of course Jordan is better, he's the best player of all time. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Magic shot 52% for his career, an absurdly high number for a point guard, and he is almost without dispute, the greatest point guard in NBA history. He won multiple titles by beating Bird's Celtics in the NBA.--Krayner 10:57, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

The relevant questions are (1) is he rated higher than someone else who's actually better? and (2) is this because of some liberal ideological reason, such as promoting the gay lobby's contention that AIDS is not a gay disease? --Ed Poor ^Talk 11:12, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

Obviously there is no entirely unquestioned ranking of NBA players, but Magic Johnson is rightly regarded as one of the 2 or 3 greatest point guards ever and one of the top 12-15 players ever. And his ranking has nothing to do with politics, and Johnson is not homosexual. He contracted HIV through unprotected sex with a woman. AndrewTompkins 11:47, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

• LeBron James (who by any stretch is NOT "far from the best" in the NBA) is certainly one of the top 5 players in the NBA today. And this "overrating" by the media...LeBron has been the villain of the media narrative for the last 2 years since he joined Miami. Do you even wtach ESPN? And Durant is not underrated in the least; again, the media narrative is that he and the Thunder will be contending for a spot in the Finals for years to come (which they will). Plus, he went to a Catholic school. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

LeBron wasn't my addition but the hype for him seems a bit much. Perhaps his unusual name helps.--Andy Schlafly 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)\

How does his name impact anything at all? AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

• Steve Nash and his 2 MVPs...does the phrase "Most Valuable Player" mean anything? It is awarded to the player judged to be most valuable to his team. Not the best player on the best team...the player most important to his team's success. And Nash was certainly the most valuable to the Suns those years considering his supporting cast. Nash is an extremely inventive, creative point guard and the ultimate team player. Plus, he produced a documentary about famed conservative runner Terry Fox. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

MVP is by popular vote by ... the lamestream media. It's like the Academy Awards and Nobel Prize -- being liberal is worth more than being talented.--Andy Schlafly 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

NBA MVPs will always more likely be liberal because the league is so heavily black. For comparison, let's look at the last 20 NFL MVPs (awarded by an AP poll of "liberal media", as you would call them). Republican Favre thrice, Steve Young (a relative of Brigham Young, for crying out loud) twice, Manning 4 times, Christian Aaron Rodgers once, outspoken Christian Kurt Warner twice...that's 60% of the MVPs from 1992-2011. Clearly your argument fails. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

• Peyton Manning...the MVP stuff from above holds true in the NFL. Yes, he won 1 Super Bowl, but he made another and had to deal with the Steelers and Patriots in the AFC (hardly weak competition). He is one of the smartest football minds to ever play the game, and no serious football analyst would claim he was a downgrade from Tebow. Not one. And he's a Republican.

The maneuver to replace Tebow with Peyton in a swing state in an election year is transparent, wouldn't you say?--Andy Schlafly 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

...so John Elway, a Republican, apparently isn't concerned with his team primarily and traded his Republican starting QB once he acquired an even better Republican quarterback? Your argument makes no sense. Elway is a Republican but not a national political figure. None of this has anything to do with politics. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

So anything that occurs in a swing state during an election year is a political maneuver? Well, it rained today in Florida. Clearly a plot by Obama to gather more votes. --MatthewQ 14:12, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

I wasn't being entirely serious with my "wouldn't you say?" comment above, but even some jokes can carry a germ of truth. Colorado is very polarized politically and ideologically, as a swing state, and there was pressure to find a substitute who could serve as a plausible reason to trade Tebow away. Florida is not as much of a swing state as Colorado, and rain is not the result of political pressure!--Andy Schlafly 15:13, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

If you weren't being entirely serious then why did you write the thing about Tebow being traded from a swing state during an election year in the article?! Or is Conservapedia openly a satire site now? (Many people seem to think it is one.) Anyway, the evidence that political pressure having anything to do with Tebow being trade is just as strong as political pressure being responsible for the rain. --MatthewQ 16:40, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

The entry is obviously about the hype, the overrated aspect. Peyton Manning was overrated earlier this year in connection with replacing Tebow.--Andy Schlafly 16:44, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

How exactly was Manning overrated in this case? Please tell me using your knowledge of football, not your political views. AndrewTompkins 22:05, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

• Mark Sanchez...say what you will, but he's been to 2 AFC Championship games, Tebow none. I will acknowledge his below average play last season (I'm not the biggest fan of him) but it would be suicidal for Rex Ryan to bench him in favor of a new acquisition who completed 46% of his passes last season. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Not my addition, but I bet Tebow is replacing him by mid-season, but the replacement should occur before the first regular season game, if it weren't for liberal politics.--Andy Schlafly 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Please tell me specifically how "liberal politics" is keeping Sanchez as the starter, and use your knowlege of football to tell me why Tebow would be a better starter than Sanchez. AndrewTompkins 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

Becks

I follow US soccer closely and have never seen David Beckham promoted as he is Pele. He is one of the best, probably top 3, free kick takers to have played the sport. This is shown by his stats. I don't see how he is overrated when he actually is a fantastic athlete. He has six Premier League titles, 2 FA Cup titles, 4 FA community shields, 2 MLS supporters shields , an MLS Cup.. the list goes on and on (that doesn't include lengthy list of personal honors he has received.) I am seriously curious as to how he is overrated. --DanJG 13:25, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

With respect, I think you are missing the point. This list has nothing to do with sporting achievements. Rather it has to do with whether the athletes involved are deserving of the praise they receive. Beckham, due to his promotion of Hollywood Values does not deserve the accolades he has acquired. --DamianJohn 09:07, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

Athletes should be praised, or criticized, for the job they do on whatever sporting field they participate in - that's their job, and that's how they should be rated. Period. Everything else is just petty gossipmongering. --SharonW 09:18, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

With regards to DamianJohn's comments... I believe this list should have everything to do with their sporting achievements. It is called "Overrated Sports Stars". Unless the point is just to list every sports player that votes on the Democrat ticket. If that is the case, the title of the page should be changed. --DanJG 11:29, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

Quick question about standards...

Are these athletes overrated based on their entire career, or just based on the last years of it, as they age and their skills fade due to injuries and/or age? Truly, the only fair way to judge someone is based on the entirety of their career, as objectively as possible. --SharonW 14:47, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

Tiger Woods?

I know that Tiger Woods is not well liked and that people here enjoy seeing him fail, but his achievements still place him in the upper echelons of golfers for all time

Yes, he merits a place on the all-time list, but he is no longer one of the very top golfers currently playing. Yet the media still claim that he is one of the favorites, or "can't be written off", going into each big tournament, at the expense of giving coverage to other players who actually have a much better chance.--CPalmer 09:23, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

So, is it a terrible thing to root for someone who was once on top of their game, but now is struggling? Isn't that what all of us do in our daily lives - struggle? Should we sneer at others when they go through something difficult, or should we show support? --SharonW 09:32, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

Ok I understand. Based on that outline I've added Michael Schumacher

No, we shouldn't sneer. I'm not advocating sneering. But we ought to be realistic about his chances, which are small, and the media often aren't. That's the definition of being overrated.--CPalmer 10:01, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

Sorry - this is sneering as far as I'm concerned. Either that, or gloating as a once-great player stumbles. Dissing someone because someone else (the media) likes them is petty and is certainly not Christ-like. --SharonW 10:13, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

If Tiger's chances are slim, wouldn't he then be the underdog? Didn't this site not too long ago claim that rooting for the underdog was a Christian characteristic? So in that sense, the media is hyping the underdog.. if Tiger's chances of winning are small. --DanJG 11:35, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

More removals

I removed Wayne Gretzky and Sol Campbell, because neither is particularly overrated. Also Bradman, which was obviously a frivolous addition - it criticised him for "not achieving anything for decades", when he retired decades ago and died in 2001.--CPalmer 10:07, 26 June 2012 (EDT)