Talk:Patterns of biological evolution

Still working on fleshing this out.--TimS 10:14, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

That's one of the biggest articles to appear in one hit that I've seen! Pity it's mostly fiction. But as it is very popular fiction, I guess it needs to be documented. And critiqued, of course. Philip J. Rayment 10:53, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

I invite you to submit your thesis to peer review, Phil. Nematocyte 11:26, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Any article I put on Conservapedia is effectively open to peer review, as is TimS' contribution here, which I hope to peer-review. Philip J. Rayment 11:36, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

I welcome the peer review, consider the number of biologists that have already reviewed the information I have presented. I will be adding links to the examples and please look at the existing research publications I cited. PubMed is where most of the research articles are from.--TimS 11:40, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Back to work on Gene expression--TimS 11:40, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

This sounds like breaking news to me. The journal article is less than 3 years old, which means it's either a new theory or it's the first time anyone has found evidence for an old theory. (Or maybe we need to do a little more digging and write the article better.) --Ed Poor 08:19, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

The first recorded instance of work of this kind is 1878. That probably is breaking news to the our up-to-the-minute-science creationists ;). Nematocyte 09:17, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Let's have less sarcasm and more useful information, okay? What the article needs is proof that 'divergent evolution' has ever appeared. If there's nothing online you can point to, perhaps you can type in a journal article? --Ed Poor 10:23, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I cited three peer reviewed articles. Nematocyte 10:24, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Good. Now summarize them. Do not act as the Kyoto Protocol supporters do, and claim that something is "supported" by scientists. Actually show the scientific evidence, if any, those scientists have offered which support the theory in question. --Ed Poor 10:30, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

The summary is that divergant environmental conditions leads to divergant evolution. The evidence is within the papers. You can check the abstracts if you wish (they summarise the entire paper). Nematocyte 10:34, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Ed, did you look at the 7 research papers I gave on your talk page about scientific findings of divergent evolution? I hope you are not misunderstanding the term divergent with macroevolution. If so then it is understandable why you are refusing to address the evidence. Look at my description of divergent evolution and then look at my description on the macroevolution page. You will see that there is a fundamental difference in the two terms. Divergent evolution can be applied as what happens when a bacterium mutates to have an antibiotic resistance and its progeny have the same resistance.--TimS 10:29, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I wish to clarify the point I made about the bacteria resistance, I am talking about mutations to the genome not to the plasmid. Bacteria can pass plasmids between each other rapidly and the colony can gain the genetic material this way. The mutation to the bacteria genome would be the example of divergent evolution, not the plasmid passing.--TimS 15:10, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I saw no evidence in the article of the first claim made, so I cut the rest of it. If you had submitted that to me as a science teacher, you'd have gotten an F. Although maybe your school has different standards, here we are building a trustworthy encyclopedia.

If you've read something which convinces you of divergent evolution or macroevolution or natural selection or anything like that, I hope you will summarize it in terms our readers can understand. Then they can look up any references you give which back up your summary. --Ed Poor 10:35, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Ed are you saying you did not understand the article? "Parallel diversification of Australian gall-thrips on Acacia." The very first sentence of the abstract "The diversification of gall-inducing Australian Kladothrips (Insecta: Thysanoptera) on Acacia has produced a pair of sister-clades, each of which includes a suite of lineages that utilize virtually the same set of 15 closely related host plant species." states the divergence. If you are not versed in scientific literature then let me know, I offer to rewrite the abstracts in layman's terms. I would have to mention about the science teacher comment, if your version of a science teacher failed that paper then they showed a lack of understanding of scientific literature and would not be capable to critique it. I have to take my son to the Dr.s so I will continue upon my return.--TimS 10:46, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I did summarize it. Divergant environment conditions causes populations to diverge. It's done virtually every day with bacteria, and very commonly with mice. Nematocyte 10:40, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

For all of this talk we still have not addressed the issue of the other two types of evolution being removed from this article.--TimS 10:32, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the revert

Thanks Philip for the revert and I will start working on the remainder of the article as soon as I am done with Gene Expression. Do we have a template for large articles that are still works in progress?--TimS 15:13, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

I don't think so, but look in the list of templates. Philip J. Rayment 19:23, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Parallel evolution

It's not clear (to me at least) what the difference is between convergent evolution and parallel evolution. Philip J. Rayment 08:28, 24 May 2007 (EDT)

Parallel evolution would be when two different species evolve together after a symbiotic relationship had been established, like a parasite and its host.

Convergent evolution is when two different species who do not share a symbiotic relationship evolve similar traits due to selective pressures of the environment.

The difference between the two is based on the symbiotic relationship. The examples should provide a difference, whales and fish having similar shaped bodies for moving through water would be convergent evolution whereas a tick and a deer evolving together where the tick is only found on a certain species of deer and has selective traits for that host, such as additional enzymes to help break down a protein found only in that deer species.--TimS 14:37, 24 May 2007 (EDT)