Usage of the term?
I'd never heard it before. Some Googling and a look at the corresponding Wikipedia article give me the distinct impression that it is commonly used by evolutionists against creationists, but that it is not commonly used in any other context. It also seems to be a fairly recent coinage.
Thoughts? Dpbsmith 06:55, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- I have heard this term before, but only ever used by evolutionists as an attack on creation researchers. It was apparently coined on the evolutionist discussion group Talk.Origins. CreationWiki has a response to this. Perhaps for balance, the sample "mined" quote could be changed from Darwin to an example of an evolutionist quoting, say, Dembski, out of context? Dr. Richard Paley 07:55, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- Surely 'balance' would be having both? Tsumetai 08:01, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- Not if it's really used only in one direction. Dpbsmith 08:38, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- Good point. Tsumetai 08:54, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- Maybe we could change it to a more abstract (and made-up) example that emphasizes the point while at the same time simply telling the context in which the term is often used (Evolutionists accusing Creationists of doing so, possibly with the reply by Creationists as Richard gave it - I haven't checked that link)? The quote strikes me as needlessly complicated, especially for an example that is supposed to make a point clear. --Sid 3050 08:33, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- Actually, what triggered my comment was that I was planning to find or concoct an example that did not involve either evolution or creationism, but if I'm correct that the phrase is used only in the evolution/creationism dispute—and, as Dr. Richard Paley notes, only in one direction—such an example would be misleading, because it wouldn't be illustrating the actual way the term is used. Dpbsmith 08:35, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- (MAD Magazine once had a very funny article about the way in which movie advertising takes reviewers' quotes out of context.) Dpbsmith 08:37, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- I suspect you're right; while the phenomenon is fairly ubiquitous, the 'quote mine' tag seems to be a neologism more or less unique to this case. Tsumetai 08:54, 8 March 2007 (EST)
I attempted to solve some of the issues here by using a quote where the subject, Dembski, wrote a response to being accused of quote mining. Are people more comfortable with this arrangement or should we keep looking for another solution? Tmtoulouse 13:16, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- No, I don't think that Dembski story solved anything, because you have done a little quote mining yourself in order to tell it the way that you did. You ran together 2 quotes that are really 5 pages apart. RSchlafly 13:49, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- It was the only reliable source that had responded to a quote mine so I ran with it with out realizing that they were separated, my mistake, I have reverted to the old quote and weaved in your information, removing the now irrelevant text. Tmtoulouse 14:02, 8 March 2007 (EST)
But the new example isn't an example of "quote mining," it's an example of plain old "quotation out of context." Unless you can find a reference that says it's ever referred to as "quote mining" outside of talk.origins, CreationWiki, and other discussions specifically of evolution/creationism. Dpbsmith 14:35, 8 March 2007 (EST)
Yea, yea, but quote mining is the collection of "out of context quotes" but I know what you are getting at though. I do not think there is anyway to save this page on conservapedia, all the material will be way to tendentious because of the dichotomy of creation/evolution. So I say we just nuke the whole darn thing!
Now I am not convinced that its not salvageable at wikipedia but I will take that up there :) Tmtoulouse 14:54, 8 March 2007 (EST)
- (In case people don't understand: I nominated "Quote mining" for deletion on Wikipedia on the grounds that it's not yet in dictionaries or what Wikipedia considers to be reliable published sources. Tmtoulouse or you or I can do some original research and confirm that it's widely used in a few specific places, such as the USENET newsgroup talk.origins, and that it's used primarily in the context of the evolution/creationism debate, but I don't think you can find that information in a published source meeting WIkipedia's reliable source guidelines. I could well be wrong...) Dpbsmith 15:01, 8 March 2007 (EST)