Difference between revisions of "Talk:Romans 1-8 (Translated)"

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(Groan, complain, συστενάζω vs. στενάζω)
(Groan, complain, συστενάζω vs. στενάζω: Groan" is clearly archaic. The word is rarely used anymore, and not with the meaning that it formerly had. "Complain" is used instead today.)
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::Should you revert me again, please be at least careful enough not to erase my comments to 8:22 and 8:23!
 
::Should you revert me again, please be at least careful enough not to erase my comments to 8:22 and 8:23!
 
::[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 09:31, 19 August 2011 (EDT)
 
::[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 09:31, 19 August 2011 (EDT)
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:::I disagree with the reversion (I've been working on other entries in the meantime).  "Groan" is clearly archaic.  The word is rarely used anymore, and not with the meaning that it formerly had.  "Complain" is used instead today.
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:::Words do change their meaning over time, and it's important to stick with the original meaning of the ancient text.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:41, 19 August 2011 (EDT)

Revision as of 07:41, 19 August 2011

I question the replacement of the pro-energy word "fueled" in Chapter 1. I don't think the substitute captures the original intent as well, or communicates the power inherent in the meaning. I realize that the verb "to fuel" may be politically incorrect these days.--Andy Schlafly 21:34, 8 March 2010 (EST)

Didn't want to cause a problem with these changes - I wasn't thinking about it in terms of any political correctness, only in terms of what the original phrases were expressing. I'll try a revision that restores that. --ChrisY 11:10, 9 March 2010 (EST)

Groan, complain, συστενάζω vs. στενάζω

The translation of στενάζω as complain in 8:23 has several disadvantages:

  • groan describes some wordless, inarticulate utterance, while complain isn't done without words.
  • Paul uses συστενάζω (a contraction σύν - together - and στενάζω - to groan) in 8:22 and contrasts this with στενάζω in the next verse. This link is lost when we use groan in 8:22 and complain in 8:23
  • is groan really archaic?

I suppose that for similar reasons I couldn't find any translation of the Bible into English which uses something else but groan in this verse.

I'll change complain back to groan while keeping the clarification on the plural.

Aschlafly, have you thought about the namespace for the CBP? And I gave a reply to your comment

August, I recall your request for me to look for any reference translating ἰδού as "at that moment." With one simple search, I found that it is translated as "when" [1], which is archaic for "at that time" in today's vernacular.--Andy Schlafly 18:43, 10 July 2011 (EDT)

here: It seems that you have misread your source.

Btw: For the last couple of days you haven't commented on your talk page - would you prefer another place to discuss the above?

AugustO 10:22, 3 August 2011 (EDT)

This is a good place for discussion. "Groan" has become archaic. It's not used much anymore. "Complain" is far more popular and familiar, and "complained to himself" captures the essence of what "groan" used to mean.--Andy Schlafly 11:21, 13 August 2011 (EDT)

Obviously you haven't read what I said about Romans 8:22 - You should really look at the surrounding verses when you translate sentences from the Bible, i.e., the context. If you insist not to use groan in 8:23, what about groan in 8:22? Can you find a translation of 8:22 and 8:23 which reflects the subtle link of συστενάζω and στενάζω?
What's about the CBP-namespace? I can't see any progress at the moment...
And then there is the open discussion on ἰδού: here's the ball in your court, I'm afraid...
AugustO 09:08, 16 August 2011 (EDT)
As you didn't address problem which your translation causes for the context of the verse, I changed it back to groan - a verb what is well understood and used in every other Bible translation at this place.
Should you revert me again, please be at least careful enough not to erase my comments to 8:22 and 8:23!
AugustO 09:31, 19 August 2011 (EDT)
I disagree with the reversion (I've been working on other entries in the meantime). "Groan" is clearly archaic. The word is rarely used anymore, and not with the meaning that it formerly had. "Complain" is used instead today.
Words do change their meaning over time, and it's important to stick with the original meaning of the ancient text.--Andy Schlafly 09:41, 19 August 2011 (EDT)