Difference between revisions of "Talk:Sarah Palin"

Revision as of 01:10, September 3, 2008

Sexist

Don't consider me sexist but... she at least looks a woman. Not like that Hillary who'd grow moustaches if she could. --AdamE 11:24, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Maybe not sexist but decidedly un-gallant and not a little silly. Hilary Clinton looks every inch a woman. If she looks less attractive than Sarah Palin that might just have something to do with the age difference: on the same basis I'd be much more worried if Obama was after my wife than if McCain were! C'mon, if attractivness was relevant you'd be lining up to vote Obama in. --Toffeeman 11:30, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Un-gallant and cynical. --UnicornTapestry 15:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

They say Lincoln could never be president now, he was too ugly. When did this turn into a beauty contest? CraigC 14:28, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Her other son, Trig.

Should such a private and personal happening as that of her second son be brought to the general public? On one hand, it is only her and her family's matter, but on the other hand it shows that her acts are as honorable as her words. At least I was dubious on her at first, but reading more and more on her I am convinced that she is the Vice President America and the world need. I'm sure even liberals aknowledge her courage and that she did the right thing with Trig. But I leave it to those more knowledgeable to include such familiar matters or not in the article. SilvioB 15:17, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

For what it's worth I think it should be mentioned, not because it's an invasion of her family's privacy, but because it says something important and positive about her character. She had stated publicly that she and her husband knew of the condition during the pregnancy, and chose not to abort it because of their values. That's a defining statement about her living the values she talks about, and one of the reasons I respect her as a person. --DinsdaleP 15:34, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Please feel free to include that information. Learn together 15:47, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Done --DinsdaleP 16:22, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Much of that information is in public release and has been reported in interviews in People and Vogue. I added a couple of comments she made, plus information about her son in the military.

--UnicornTapestry 21:50, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

The one of the rare times I will make a display of my personal opinions on here. I find this woman to be hypocritical and in fact somewhat repulsive as a mother. I am all for women's rights, adn all for women having a career, but she has a SIX MONTH OLD SON, and is about to go on a campaign trail. The only possible way she can manage a campaign trail is if someone else raises her son. And a special needs son as well. I am heart sick that this woman would put her career before her child. Men are expected to do this, but women are the core of our children's lives. We are central to who they become. Especially for the first 5 years of their life. Work before you have a kid, expand your career after your child is back in school. But the 5 most important years of a child's development are before he or she starts socializing, and this woman is willing to be an American vice president which will keep her on the road over 200 days a year, if you go by averages of other VPs, and often in countries where it's not only "discouraged" to take a child, but out right dangerous. Vietnam and Korea - if you are there to represent the US. Venezuela. Cuba. Georgia. China. not places to be taking a child. I am disheartened, as I said. This is not a good role model for how to be a women in teh US finding a career - when the career comes before your own family. AGain, rarely will you see me make a statement like this, cause I'm not normally into challenges. but this woman makes me so sad for her child, and as a mother, as a woman who believes that a Christian woman (and any woman, frankly) should put her infants first... it is just sad. Would it have killed her to wait 5 years before being in such demanding political positions?--MHayes Michelle13:58, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Wow, that's heartfelt and does give one pause. I have to confess I didn't put the numbers (dates) together. Thanks for making me think a little more about this.

--UnicornTapestry 15:37, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Thanks. I get argumentative on topics about things like linguistics, and what languages are related to what languages (what I'm pursuing for my graduate degree). But i rarely butt into political comments. maybe I should. maybe not. but I set aside my studies for my kids, and it was THE RIGHT THING TO DO for me. I really feel that there is an important reason that the Bible (and many other religions, by the way) advocate that a woman make her life at home *until* such a time as her kids are grown. I woudn't even go that far, but I did say that I woudln't go back to teaching till my two were in school, cause then I don't have to be there "9-5". but when they are so little? I truly feel, and maybe this isn't proven by science, maybe it is, that a woman is more emotionally connected to her kids (and vica versa) than the father, and should be there for them at their development. hugs. Michelle. --MHayes 15:45, 30 August 2008 (EDT) (PS, if other than this, you ever want to see me be realllllyyy stubborn, just ask me about the T-D vocalization in Navajo after the move into New Mexico. hehe. (edit conflict)

Oh, boy...

Cue the whitewashing. I'm gonna guess the polar bear section will be deleted or completely rewritten within 24 hours. As it stands, it certainly seems like a good example of "liberal bias". Egen 15:26, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

I suggest to close this article from editing for a few days or at least hours. It's clear that it will become a favorite target for vandals. I'm sure if changes have to be made, Administrators will be able to make them well. I'm not suggesting a long term block, mind you, just to let things calm down. SilvioB 15:29, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

I think Silvio has nmade a good point. Bugler 15:30, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

The polar bear status is unclear. International numbers have been increasing, but largely due to numbers now being reported in Siberia and other former states of the Soviet Union. I don't know if different species are involved or that the aggregate is germane. It will be interesting to find out.

kind regards, --UnicornTapestry 21:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Neither polar bears nor polar ice are decreasing at such a rate as to prove the "global warming thesis". Average air temperature fluctuates due to natural causes. There's been a lot of hot air since 1989 aimed at enforcing some socialist ideas of forced redistribution of wealth, but no such system has ever worked out well. --Ed Poor ^Talk 19:53, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Affirmative Action Vice-President

What is the Affirmative Action Vice-President part about? That is ridiculous. She would be the first woman VP but that has nothing to do with affirmative action. Fsamuels 16:48, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

It's criticising (in an oblique way) the accusations that Obama would be the first "Affirmitive Action President". I suspect that whoever called Palin that is hoping that you will find it ridiculous and decide that the Obama accusation is similarly ridiculous. --Toffeeman 16:59, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Help me out here... Obama, if elected, will of course be the first Affirmative Active President. The rationale being: he's being elevated to a level higher that he would have been, primarily because of his race. Yet isn't Palin, a former mayor of a town of 7000, now a governor for all 18 months, also being elevated to a level higher than she would have been, because of her gender? You cannot suggest that she is the best person, male or female, for the job, can you? Is the objection that affirmative action only apples to race? (Because it certainly applies to gender as well.) Is the objection that Palin is in fact the most competent person, male or female, for the position of vice president? (If not, on what basis can you say that Palin is not an affirmative-action candidate?) --Mycosaur 19:44, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

There are several problems with your simplistic analogy. The qualifications for a Vice President are different from that of a President; Palin has stronger executive experience than Obama; Palin was selected to run against Obama; and we never claimed that Hillary Clinton would be the first affirmative action president.--Aschlafly 19:50, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

I think part of the idea is how readily the path was cleared for each person. For Obama, based on that thinking, his position was pretty much given to him along the way whereas for Palin, she had to fight the establishment to accomplish what she did. Now as far as her selection for Vice President, well, that could be a different matter. Learn together 19:54, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't agree with "affirmative action whatever" for either of them. If Obama is the next President or Palin the next Vice-President they will be there because millions voted that way. "Affirmative action" is best kept for appointments: respecting whoever is in charge after the election respects the US electorate. --Toffeeman 09:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Second Picture

I think we should take it down. It's just like the first one and is totally unnecessary. If there is a second picture then it should be her with John McCain. I'm going to take it down. Maybe an administrator could replace it with this. Chippeterson 29 August 2008 http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-08/palin.jpg

Sorry, link says access denied. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 09:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

O.K., how about this one. http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/08/29/PH2008082902687.jpg Chippeterson 30 August 2008

That's better! --UnicornTapestry 11:15, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

That's a good one.--Frey 14:47, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

It seems to be popular. Anyway an administrator could come in and upload it? Chippeterson 30 August 2008

We have to see the original source of the photo first... not only that link. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 19:00, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

Foreign Policy

The section has one compound sentence, and one of the words ("commender") is/was misspelled. Also, saying that the governor of Alaska is the commander of chief of the Alaska National Guard is somewhat patronizing to people who know things about state National Guards. It seems as though it's simply trying to inflate her foreign policy experience, which she doesn't have much of. --DrtyLb8 23:35, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Why shouldn't it say she is the commander of the Alaska National Guard? HenryS 23:39, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

HenryS, your an administrator, I was hoping that you could upload this picture. I would really appreciate it, thanks. Chippeterson 31 August 2008 http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/08/29/PH2008082902687.jpg

Eldest Daughter Pregnant

Palin's response "We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby." Proud to be a Grandmother. Unlike Obama's response of his children "if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby." -- jp 13:04, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Gossip?

It can hardly be "gossip" if the facts of the matter are plainly seen in the official statement. What is gossip is that fairy tale that was reported on the daily kos over the weekend. Marge 14:54, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

I wasn't trying to gossip. I got that from yahoo news. Palin says 17-year-old daughter pregnant. This is likely to be a big issue for a conservative campaign. CraigC 15:04, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Folks, you're clueless about the meaning of gossip. Newspapers and press releases do print gossip all the time. We do not and have had that in our rules since our beginning.--Aschlafly 15:06, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

What's the difference between gossip and CP's article Hollywood values? --Jareddr 15:07, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

What are you referencing specifically? Publicly charged crimes are not gossip, and neither are deaths of public figures.--Aschlafly 15:19, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Well, to my knowledge, an underage pregnancy, like Palin's daughter, is not a publicly charged crime nor a death. Ergo, I would think that Jamie Lynn Spears' pregnancy would fall into the same category. --Jareddr 15:22, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Spears is a public figure who profits from public attention.--Aschlafly 15:23, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Yes, but it's neither a crime, nor a death, but rather talking about is "idle talk or rumor, esp. about the personal or private affairs of others." It seems she was just as public initially about the pregnancy as Palin has been about her daughter. Both of them brought the topic into the public eye on their own, with the GOP campaign issuing a statement providing the news.--Jareddr 15:28, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Jareddr, this is my final response to your senseless comments. Palin's daughter is a private figure (and a minor) who sought no publicity. Respect her privacy, or leave.--Aschlafly 15:37, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Aschlafly, perhaps then the entry on Barack Obamas half brother should be removed then. Using your logic its also gossip. He didn't seek public attention either. ClarkeD 17:58, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

What are you specifically referring to? I did a quick look and didn't see any details about Obama's half-brother in his entry.--Aschlafly 18:24, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Here. It is a whole page about him. ClarkeD 18:29, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

Palin's "Liberal" Critics

In the interest of avoiding an edit war, I wanted to point out that several of the key critics of Palin's handling of the Gravina Bridge project were prominent Alaskan Republicans, not "liberals". If one reads the referenced article this would be clear, but I've added in the names, titles and supporting quotes from these individuals so I'm not accused of anything unprofessional. I've also left in the comment about earmark money not being returned as common practice, which was unsupported by any reference, but left anyway. --DinsdaleP 18:49, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Personal Background

Are we going to include information about her daughter being pregnant or not? I don't think it is necessary, as Aschlafly said she is a "private figure (and a minor) who sought no publicity". Currently, there is mention of this in the article. Any thoughts? HenryS 19:48, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

I say take the high road and leave it out as much as possible. It's a challenge, though, because of new stories like this one, where Palin is shown to have used her line-item veto to cut funding for teen-pregnancy programs. How can you be credibly pro-life, and at the same time cut funding for the very programs that offer teens an option to abortion? I'm starting to question her judgment more and more. --DinsdaleP 19:53, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

You can say she cuts funding for teen-pregnancy problems as part of a discussion of her record as governor, and still leave out mention of her daughter. While it's nice we're having a conversation about it, as Henry mentioned, Aschlafly has made his opinion clear and any attempt to add it will just be reverted, so might as well just skip it entirely. --Jareddr 20:03, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Dinsdale, you keeping pushing your point of view at the expense of the daughter's privacy, even on the Talk:Main Page and you should stop it. There is nothing about the simple fact of the daughter's pregnancy that supports your point of view, so stop exploiting it. She was probably in public school where she received all the indoctrination that you support.--Aschlafly 20:04, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm not out to exploit her daughter for the sake of making a political point. While I said that it's a challenge, my very next point about Palin was to contrast one of her policies (against funding pregnant-teen programs) with another (pro-life), and no mention of their family's situation was required to do so. Meanwhile, you immediately start making assumptions about what her daughter did or didn't learn in public school. Which of us was sticking to the Governor and her policies, and which was pulling her daughter into a shot at public schools and accusing her of being "indoctrinated"? --DinsdaleP 21:02, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Also, there are multiple news reports tonight that the baby's father is being flown to the convention to attend with the Palins. The Governor's children should be left alone, and people can reach their own conclusions about parents who feel a need to pull young teens "facing the challenge of parenthood" even further into the media spotlight. --DinsdaleP 21:10, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Reversion Explained

Don't delete history or try to cover up how wrong it has been for liberals on the internet to mock Palin over the founding father's remark.--Aschlafly 20:32, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

You should try to explain in what way they are wrong then. If you just claim 'liberals are wrong' then liberals are going to ignore you, and there is little point in preaching to the choir. Besides, her claim appears dubious to me. 'Under God' really wasn't in the pledge until long after the founding. It was added in the 50s. It doesn't matter if it came from a different founding document, she was refering explicitly to the pledge, and demonstrated she is ignorant of a very minor piece of historical trivia. It may be best to keep quiet on this one until the historical arguments are worked out here. NewCrusader 20:52, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Drug Use?

Sarah Palin has admitted in the past that she use marijuana, though it was legal in Alaska from 1975-2006. Should this be added into her biography? Granted, it wasn't illegal, but nevertheless I believe conservatives may find it disconcerting to participate in drug use. Reference for the story here. --Jareddr 20:35, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Nah, that just doesn't seem needed. HenryS 20:36, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

If someone does something legal in their private life, then it's private and should be left alone. --DinsdaleP 21:03, 2 September 2008 (EDT)