Difference between revisions of "Talk:Satan"

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(archangel Lucifer ?)
(Satan's origin: new section)
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The [[Unification faith]] identifies Satan as the archangel [[Lucifer]]. Is this a common Christian belief? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 10:47, 13 January 2010 (EST)
 
The [[Unification faith]] identifies Satan as the archangel [[Lucifer]]. Is this a common Christian belief? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 10:47, 13 January 2010 (EST)
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== Satan's origin ==
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Given that the universe did not originally contain any evil, and Satan was created by God, who, being all-knowing and all-powerful had the ability to create Satan in such a way that he would incapable of becoming evil, how did Satan become evil? Satan could not have had free will, given that he is part of a universe which is basically a machine proceeding from a beginning state to a predestined end state; however complicated the machine may be, its destiny is still known beforehand to an omniscient Being, and indeed is controlled beforehand by an omniscient and omnipotent Creator.
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So, since everything that occurs, including Satan's fall, must be God's will, how then do we define evil? Satan's "evil" must be the same kind of "evil" that exists in, say, a computer game in which the creator has purposefully scripted evil doings and evil characters into the plot, and programmed them to occur under specific circumstances. As the program executes, the evil will inevitably transpire in accordance with the program; it cannot happen any other way. And there is no outside force that can act on the universe, other than God's, so there is no way God's will can be thwarted. And so we cannot define "evil" as being that which is against God's will. Unless of course, we presume the existence of a universe in which two contradictory things can be simultaneously true &mdash; i.e, that God's will can fulfilled at the same time as it isn't fulfilled. Contradictions are not impossible when one assumes the existence of a truly omnipotent being; in such a case, they become [[paradox]]es. [[User:Tisane|Tisane]] 20:22, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

Revision as of 18:22, 25 July 2010

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Satan reigning in Hell?

I realize this is a concept from Milton, but does anyone know if this is Biblical? The lake of fire was created for satan and his angels for his eternal punishment at the end of days. In Revelation he is thrown down from heaven and he is described as "the prince of this world" in the New Testament, but where does it state he reigns in hell?

Also, where is there a "divine council" of the angels where satan is present in the New Testament? If this is the case, then we should cite the place.

Thanks Learn together 23:39, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

I agree that the Bible implies that Satan is a prisoner in Hell along with the rest of the damned. DanH 23:41, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

I thought that the New Testament statement that was removed implied that he was referenced in the NT, not this divine council. But I didn't really read it so I may be wrong.Богдан Talk 00:31, 27 May 2007 (EDT)
I will correct accordingly, to make this more clear. Thanks Learn together 01:55, 27 May 2007 (EDT)

Who tempted Jesus in the desert...? If Satan was indeed IMPRISONED in Hell, how did he tempt Jesus? "Get thee behind me!" Ring a bell? If you believe these things... Jros83 02:09, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

That doesn't mean he reigns in hell, only that he still has freedom (although it may be limited). Learn together 02:11, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
Enough freedom to render the the concept of imprisonment to be null and void. If he can come into our world and tempt The Christ, well, reallly, how does that fit imprisonment? Unless you wish to argue that it was in God's plan, but then, of course, you'd have to show me where that is written (I refer you to the Old Testament book of Job where The Lord makes plain that ot was His choice to let Satan test Job, so that I may set precedent). The point I was making is, Satan niether reigns over what we call "Hell" nor is he imprisoned in it. I could go furtherbut I'd be making this a philosophical and theological debate; one I would be severly chastised over at that...Jros83 04:33, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
I'm afraid you may be confusing this issue. All we were discussing was whether or not he reigns in hell, not whether or not he is imprisoned. As the article had previously stated he reigned in hell, it was important to quickly discuss before removing. Learn together 11:01, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

As we all know, there are differing views of the book of Revelation, but most agree that Satan is finally put in hell forever. The idea of Satan ruling hell right now works if you're the cartoonist for the Far Side, but it's not really the biblical view. DanH 04:38, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

(edit conflict) There are different interpretations depending upon which branch of hermeneutics and exegesis you support; the article appears to be in keeping with what might loosely be termed the majority opinion. File:User Fox.png Fox (talk|contribs) 04:39, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
Shoot, I think on this I'll go with Dante. At least his rendition is a little interesting. Lake of Ice > Lake of Fire.--Elamdri 05:27, 25 June 2007 (EDT)
Yeah I'd have to agree with you there. Ice cold fits more with the absence of God's love than flame does. In my opinion. Jros83 02:50, 27 June 2007 (EDT)
Plus it is scarier if you think about it. Frozen in Lake of ice > Burning in lake of Fire. With Fire, there is just the pain, Ice has a whole psychological aspect heaped on top.--Elamdri 03:29, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Was he an angel?

The Unification faith identifies Satan as the archangel Lucifer. Is this a common Christian belief? --Ed Poor Talk 10:47, 13 January 2010 (EST)

Satan's origin

Given that the universe did not originally contain any evil, and Satan was created by God, who, being all-knowing and all-powerful had the ability to create Satan in such a way that he would incapable of becoming evil, how did Satan become evil? Satan could not have had free will, given that he is part of a universe which is basically a machine proceeding from a beginning state to a predestined end state; however complicated the machine may be, its destiny is still known beforehand to an omniscient Being, and indeed is controlled beforehand by an omniscient and omnipotent Creator.

So, since everything that occurs, including Satan's fall, must be God's will, how then do we define evil? Satan's "evil" must be the same kind of "evil" that exists in, say, a computer game in which the creator has purposefully scripted evil doings and evil characters into the plot, and programmed them to occur under specific circumstances. As the program executes, the evil will inevitably transpire in accordance with the program; it cannot happen any other way. And there is no outside force that can act on the universe, other than God's, so there is no way God's will can be thwarted. And so we cannot define "evil" as being that which is against God's will. Unless of course, we presume the existence of a universe in which two contradictory things can be simultaneously true — i.e, that God's will can fulfilled at the same time as it isn't fulfilled. Contradictions are not impossible when one assumes the existence of a truly omnipotent being; in such a case, they become paradoxes. Tisane 20:22, 25 July 2010 (EDT)