Talk:Scopes Trial

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This is so atrociously biased that I need not say more than this.Alloco1 16:54, 16 March 2007 (EDT)


there has in fact been a lot of dialouge left out, quote mining if you will. Albyiscool 12:02, 21 March

Gore?

It might be nice if there were some explanation for how Gore's loss is relevant here. I'm not necessarily saying it's not, I don't know either way, but the leap from TN views on evolution (which needs a cite) to Gore losing is a big one and it's not clear why that should be here.--Murray 11:42, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

I deleted it, Asch keeps restoring it :-/ --AmesG 01:45, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
Andy, the Gore line is shockingly irrelevant.-AmesG 12:37, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
It's completely relevant to the aftermath section, it is factual, it is not widely known, and it is undisputed. We report, the reader decides. Do not censor factual material that comply with our rules. This is not Wikipedia, where factual material disliked by liberals is censored.--Aschlafly 12:39, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
Andy, can you actually show a correlation between Al Gore, evolution and losing the state in 2000? He represented TN in the Congress for close to 16 years. Did something change that you're privy to that validates the sentence being here?--Dave3172 12:41, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
How is Al Gore's loss relevant to the Scopes Trial? They DID both take place in Tennessee and relate to overall Tennessee politics. I could link you to good scholarly articles on Tennessee politics so you could paste a full treatment of the entirety of Tennessee politics in the "aftermath" discussion, if you want.
I have no problem with your statement about Al Gore, it just doesn't belong here. Practice good editing and put it in the Al Gore article. And I won't bring up the other problems with this article.--AmesG 12:42, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
Yes, I wonder how many voters in Tennessee in 2000 said to themselves before pulling the lever, "Wow, I have the chance to help elect a Tennessean to the Presidency...if only he wasn't a Godless Evolutionist!" Certianly it belongs on the Tennessee page, the Gore page, the 2000 election page but here?
Then again, the Boss says it stays so it stays. If though, this is the tip o' the iceberg of "might makes right" then there might be porblems larger than this in Conservapedialand.

Is there a cite

Is there a citation for the sentence "The textbook also featured the fraudulent Piltdown Man."? I believe the only use of Piltdown Man was in an affidavit by an (or two) "expert" witness. Piltdown was only "discovered" in 1912, the Hunter's Civic Biology text was published in 1914.

--Crackertalk 01:34, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

End of Trial

My understanding has always been that the judge considered the whole Darrow/Byran exchange pointless and called it to a halt. So rather than Darrow ducking out, the judge stopped it b/f he could be examined by Bryan.

Also, this whole article needs to be re-examined. The bias is overwhelming.--Dave3172 11:49, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Your understanding is based on the erroneous liberal spin. In fact, everyone was stunned (including the NY Times) that Darrow reneged on his deal to take the stand.
Everything in the content page is well-supported. There is enormous liberal misinformation about the trial that has misled everyone who fails to look at the facts.--Aschlafly 11:51, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
Andy, with all due respect, I can't agree with you. I've read in multiple places that Raulston cut off Bryan's questioning and didn't allow the cross-exam. He decided the whole sequence wasn't germane to the trial. So Darrow didn't "chicken out" Further, Darrow called for a guilty verdict not to "save his own skin" but so he could appeal to the Tennessee Supreme Court.
Again, my issue isn't with the fawning pro-Bryan tone. It's with the blatant mis-statement of fact. It should be corrected.--Dave3172 12:03, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
Here is Darrow asking for a guilty verdict. [1]
I am frank to say, while we think it is wrong, and we ought to have been permitted to put in our evidence, the court felt otherwise, as he had a right to hold. We cannot argue to you gentlemen under the instructions given by the court--we cannot even explain to you that we think you should return a verdict of not guilty. We do not see how you could. We do not ask it. We think we will save our point and take it to the higher court and settle whether the law is good, and also whether he should have permitted the evidence. I guess that is plain enough.
I am not sure that Darrow's motives can be deduced from this. I guess that you are questioning the sentence, "To save his own skin, Darrow handed over his client!" It is certainly very rare to ask for a guilty verdict like this. RSchlafly 13:34, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
I agree; it is rare. But if you look at what Darrow says towards the end: "We think we will save our point and take it to the higher court and settle whether the law is good, and also whether he should have permitted the evidence." Darrow is asking for a guilty verdict so he can appeal it. Hardly the act of a "chicken."--Dave3172 16:57, 20 March 2007 (EDT)