Difference between revisions of "Talk:Ukraine"

Revision as of 22:33, November 23, 2019

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does the following phrase contain a typo or just a word I don't know? "and remaining food wtocks were forcibly removed"? Jsparks 03 May 2011

Ukrainian nationalists

It may be a bit of hype to claim all Ukrainians are for use of the Ukrainian dialect, spellings, etc. The Russians are true multiculturalists, and many Ukrainians are for positive integration and cooperation with both Russians who are resident in Ukraine, and their Russian Federation neighbor. There is also a segment of Ukrainian nationalists - many who are quite literally fascists and hate Russians, Jews, Poles, etc. The Soviet Union battled them throughout its existence. The Nazis used them to commit atrocities on civilians. The United States, under James V. Forrestal, mistakenly considered them anti-communists, when in fact their true motivation is anti-ethnic Russian hatred. Since czarist times, these Ukrainian nationalists view Russia, later the USSR, and now the Russian Federation as seeking to dominate and control Ukrainians. Not all Ukrainians then, or now, hold this belief.

The well publicized culture of corruption can be cited as to why the Ukraine (like Palestine), may not be fit to hold the status of a sovereign state. It is not a "frontline" state, as Deep Staters repeatedly announced in the impeachment hearings. Sevastopol will never be a NATO naval base, anymore than the UK would allow Dublin, Ireland to be a U-boat sanctuary during two World Wars.

There are Ukrainian integrationists, let's call them moderates, who are not on a crusade to use the language and spellings. Many Ukrainian nationalists who drive these issues are widely considered Nazis and fascists. We should be careful in the Intro of implying there is an all-out ethnic war between Russians and Ukrainians. There is not. There are, however, Ukrainian nationalists and fascists, such as Alexandra Chalupa and Alexander Vindman, many resident in the Ukrainian Diaspora community, who will manipulate the Russian and American superpowers (even German and other EU members) to serve Ukrainian nationalist and fascist objectives.

Question: When did the Ukrainian nationalist community jump ship from the anti-communist GOP to the Democrats in the United States?
Answer: In 1992, with George H.W. Bush's famous "Chicken Kiev" speech to the Ukrainian parliament, encouraging them to remain in the Russian Federation. The Clinton administration solidified this bloc with the Budapest Protocols of 1994 recognizing Ukrainian independence. With all the corruption we've seen, of paying Paul Manafort, the Podesta brothers, and Hunter Biden protection money to a big state sponsor, is just a continuation of the corruption during Soviet times.

Khrushchev, who was a fully integrated Ukrainian multiculturalist, served on the Politburo to represent Ukrainian interests and eventually rose to head of state. Khrushchev rewarded Ukraine with the Crimea (without a plebiscite of its Russian ethnic majority) in 1954 because he believed communist ideology had defeated Ukrainian ethno-fascism for all time. Khrushchev won his position in the Soviet hierarchy because he organized Ukrainians into the Red Army against the Germans and their allied Ukrainian Banderists - the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - which (1) served the Waffen SS, (2) organized the Ukrainian parliament in 1992, (3) took over the Democratic Ethnic Outreach Council (DEOC) after Clinton's recognition of Ukraine in 1994, and which Alexandra Chalupa is a director; (here's an interesting item from 1988, Ex-nazis Among Leadership Ranks of Republican Outreach Groups; those same ex-Nazis and their ideology have now, for the past 25 years, been in the leadership ranks of the Democratic party, Chalupa and Vindman being two of the most visible).

Bottomline: We should be careful about pandering to anti-Russian xenophobes on the issue of the Ukrainian language. It is exactly what they want, and it's being used as a prime issue to impeach a president and overturn American democracy. RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 15:14, 23 November 2019 (EST)

This is no small issue

The current fighting is in the Donbass region, site of [Mamiya Hill] and the Monument to the Liberators of the Donbass, Donetsk, Ukraine commemorating the victory at Stalingrad. Hitler chose this ethnically mixed region to exploit anti-Russian sentiment and bet the farm on the outcome of the war. Here's a Soviet era film narrated by Burt Lancaster taped on Mamiya Hill (well worth watching). A week ago Russian TV announced the monument is being restored. Here's the Sword of Stalingrad being presented to Stalin by Churchill and FDR at the Teheran Conference. The Sword is depicted in Europe's tallest monument on Mamiya Hill.

All this we are supposed to forget. The Russians are supposed to ignore their own history and their victory over fascism. These are essentially the arguments behind "Ukraine is a frontline state", "aid to Ukraine", and "Russian expansionism" (there is no Russian expansionism; there is however NATO expansionism).

The pro-Deep State, military industrial complex, pro-Ukraine, anti-Russian impeachment movement is essentially for the US and NATO to go to Crimea and the Donbass and finish the job that Hitler screwed up. Wake up! RobS^{De Plorabus Unum} 16:44, 23 November 2019 (EST)

All of which reminds me we never settled on your Christmas present. How about a nice bare-chested Putin riding a shark duvet cover? JohnZ (talk) 17:33, 23 November 2019 (EST)