Talk:Vladimir Lenin
May I suggest some minor changes to the English here, which seems to have been written by someone whose first language is Russian. (And who better to write on this topic?)
Change "the frigid Siberia" to "frigid Siberia" (or better yet just to "Siberia"). Change "after czar" to "after the Czar".
More generally, there should be links to a much more extensive history of Russia, especially the development of the Revolution from the late 1880s to 1917, and to events after the Revolution.
These would bring out that Lenin actually created the Bolshevik Party by leading a split within Russian Marxism; that the Bolsheviks considered themselves a faction of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party, not a separate party themselves, until 1912; and that Russia, under Lenin's rule, underwent some great variations in economic organization prior to Stalin's final full socialization of the economy beginning in 1928 -- from the extremes of "War Communism" during the Civil War, to the "New Economic Policy" after 1921, none of them successful in squaring the circle of how a country led by thorough socialists can experience all-round sustainable economic growth to match and exceed that achievable under a system of ordered liberty.
Changes
Firstly saying someone destroyed everything is subjective. Secondly saying Stalin destroyed Marxism-Leninism (communism) ignores the fact the USSR continued after Stalin died in 1953.
- I'm confused, what was wrong with saying that Marxism-Leninism lasted until the fall of the U.S.S.R.? Sayingt that Stalin destroyed everything seems kind of unencyclopedic.NSmyth 01:22, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
- You're right, Nsmyth. MountainDew 01:27, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
- Lenin set the country off in a Marxist-Leninist direction. Upon Lenin's death, Trotsky (Lenin's protoge) and Stalin competed for power, with Stalin eventually gaining the upper hand. Stalin's policies were extremely un-Leninistic. Marxism-Leninism did not last until the fall of the USSR. It was eclipsed by Stalinism during the purges. GodlessLiberal 18:01, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
- You're right, Nsmyth. MountainDew 01:27, 23 March 2007 (EDT)
Murderer?
Perhaps the phrasing in this article is too harsh, it is impossible to tell whether or not Lenin was truly devious, nor is it possible to determine whether he is a "murderer". A murderer is a person who kills someone, I do not believe that Lenin actually, personally, murdered anyone, though he was responsible for the death of a good number of people. On the other hand it could be argued that Bill Clinton or George W. Bush were responsible for at least as many deaths as Lenin during their services as President. Jekill 2:31 february 26 2008
Suffrage and Anti-Semitism
I've provided multiple links substantiating what I've written. The statements I've posted are backed up by a greater degree of documentation than any number of other statements on this website, and their continued deletion seems attributable to nothing so much as a desire to keep people from knowing the progressive aspects of Lenin's government.
- Thank you for the links. When possible we given specifics so I have noted the female minister's name and her title. I have also put the date of the speech for Lenin's denouncing of anti-semitism. Likewise, I have removed the reference to a women's right to vote taking place under Lenin's government, since the source says 1917 and Lenin's government came to power in November 1917. It is unclear if this occurred due to his government or under the previous government that he overthrew. Learn together 00:01, 4 March 2008 (EST)
- I think the inclusion of anti-semitism's history in Russia is crucial. It's not simply that the czar and co. were anti-semitic. It's that hatred towards Jews was as deeply ingrained in Russian history as white supremacy is in America. Read practically any Jewish newspaper from around the world in 1917-1918 and you'll find celebrations of the Soviet Government's campaign against pogroms. The fact that Jews like Trotsky, Zionviev, and Kamenev were in high government was a further indication of the magnitude of the change Lenin's government made when it came to anti-semitism.
- Also, the timeframe on Kollontai is incorrect. She's elected Commissar for Public Health at the second all Russian congress of soviets in 1917, resigns from the commissariat in 1918, but is still a key figure in the government until 1922.
- Your source specifically says she resigned from the government in 1918. It does go on to discuss her continued involvement in politics. The key, I believe, is to be true to the information provided in what are hopefully trustworthy sources, and also to realize that Lenin is our focus. A separate article could be written about Kollontai if that is desired. Learn together 23:05, 7 March 2008 (EST)
First name
I believe I understand why it would make some sense to have this page at "Lenin" - because when most people refer to him they don't use his first name, but at the same time I would think that we should include his first name in the title. Most people refer to Joseph Stalin as Stalin, but the article is located at Joseph Stalin, and Stalin is merely a redirect. Is this not a similar situation? (Note: I am by no means an expert on this subject, so if there is some weird circumstances regarding his name I would obviously rescind my request). (Final note: I would probably not include his middle name in the title, as that might be overboard, and it's very rarely done, but I'd certainly be fine with it if the middle name was included).--IDuan 15:15, 2 May 2009 (EDT)
