Difference between revisions of "Talk:William F. Buckley, Jr."

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(reply to false criticism)
(BUCKLEY and LIBERAL SMEAR?: The smear by Buckley of JBS is well-documented, and even obvious from a YouTube linked to in the entry. J. Edgar Hoover was praised by many for helping stem the infiltration of communists into the [[Deep state)
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::: ALSO see October 1966 issue of JBS magazine, ''American Opinion'', for article entitled, "''The Wisdom and Warning of J. Edgar Hoover".''
::: ALSO see October 1966 issue of JBS magazine, ''American Opinion'', for article entitled, "''The Wisdom and Warning of J. Edgar Hoover".''
::::Interesting, but I'm sure not what your point is.  The smear by Buckley of [[JBS]] is well-documented, and even obvious from a YouTube linked to in the entry.  [[J. Edgar Hoover]] was praised by many for helping stem the infiltration of [[communists]] into the [[Deep state]].  To which of this, if any, you object?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 20:08, 23 June 2019 (EDT)

Revision as of 19:08, 23 June 2019

Is this it for William F. Buckley?


This page should be moved to William F. Buckley, Jr., properly. RobSCIA vs Trump. Who's gonna win? 19:57, 18 February 2017 (EST)

Done. Conservative (talk) 16:47, 19 February 2017 (EST)


Why the deletions of the links to other entries? Some them are particularly interesting.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 00:44, 3 June 2017 (EDT)

TheAmericanRedoubt was a very disruptive editor who sought to use Conservapedia as a link spam farm. His excessive cross-linking lowered Conservapedia's google rankings and did not really help readers. He would spend the day copy and pasting the same set of links into a large number of articles without thinking about each article separately. Thanks, JDano (talk) 05:31, 3 June 2017 (EDT)

Buckley and Robert Welch -- A Smear?


It is difficult to understand this article's description of Buckley as being the author or leader of the "liberal smear" of the John Birch Society when you consider that the most potent critics of Robert Welch and the JBS have always originated from the right-side of the political spectrum.

JBS critics have included such prominent conservative Americans such as:

Sen. Barry Goldwater, Cong. Walter Judd, Gen. Albert C. Wedemeyer, Russell Kirk, Eugene Lyons, Willmoore Kendall, James Burnham, Robert Bork, J. Edgar Hoover, former FBI informant Herbert Philbrick, Frank S. Meyer, Cong. Gordon H. Scherer, William F. Buckley Jr., Patrick Buchanan, Fred Schwarz, Lee Edwards, the editors of the conservative newspaper Human Events, George Sokolsky, Roy Cohn, Anthony Bouscaren.

Many Birchers (including some of their most prominent writers and speakers and lifetime members) left the Society and published caustic criticisms of the JBS -- such as: Alan Stang, Gary Allen, Dr. Charles Provan, Milorad Draskovich, John Rees, and William Norman Grigg. Even Mrs. Robert Welch (the widow of JBS founder Robert Welch) withdrew her support from the JBS after her husband died.

Furthermore, the Birch Society has the "distinction" of being the only national conservative "educational" organization to have lost an historic precedent-setting defamation lawsuit after the JBS described Chicago lawyer Elmer Gertz in an article it published in its monthly magazine as “a Communist fronter” and a “Leninist” who was engaged in a “conspiracy” against the Chicago police.

After 14 years of litigation, including two different jury trials, numerous appeals, and review by the U.S. Supreme Court, the JBS paid Gertz $100,000 in compensatory damages and $300,000 in punitive damages for malice. Because the JBS appealed the initial decision, the final payment (including accrued interest) was almost $500,000 (which is about $1.5 million in 2017 dollars). Punitive damages are only allowed in libel actions when “malice” can be shown. Malice, in legalese, refers to “reckless disregard for truth” arising from evil intent and a desire to inflict injury, harm, or suffering.

As one Appeals Court observed about the JBS article on Gertz:

“There was more than enough evidence for the jury to conclude that this article was published with utter disregard for the truth or falsity of the statements contained in the article about Gertz.” [U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, No. 81-2483, Elmer Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 6/16/82, page 20].

In addition: former FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover and senior officials of the FBI concluded that the Birch Society was a "right-wing extremist" organization that did NOT deal in facts. In fact, the FBI (during Hoover's tenure) falsified every major tenet of JBS dogma.

In summary: It is NOT historically accurate to claim that William Buckley "led" any "liberal smear". In fact, Buckley and Robert Welch were friends and Welch not only made two significant financial contributions to Buckley's magazine (in 1955 and 1957), Welch also recommended and sold Buckley's books in the JBS bookstores and Welch placed all the books by the National Review contributing editors on the Birch Society's recommended reading list. Even AFTER Buckley criticized Welch's views, Buckley defended the Birch Society when he believed it was being unfairly criticized -- such as during the "Birchers as policemen" controversy.

Lastly, there is one more point which any serious discussion of the Buckley vs Welch feud should recognize: Buckley's positions on most public policy issues were identical to those of Robert Welch and the JBS. The JBS created what it described as a "Conservative Index" (now known as "Freedom Index") to score the voting behavior of all members of Congress. If someone would go back and list all the policies or issues which the JBS scored and then compare Buckley's position on those policies or issues to what the Birch Society preferred, Buckley would almost certainly have gotten a score of 85 or higher most of the time. In other words, when someone agrees with you 85% or more of the time they are your ALLY, not your enemy. Ernie1241 (talk) 13:47, 25 March 2019 (EDT)ernie1241Ernie1241 (talk) 13:47, 25 March 2019 (EDT)

Some of Trump's strongest critics "originate from the right-side of the political spectrum" -- they include "prominent conservative Americans such as:"
  • The Koch Brothers, Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan, Bill Kristol, Max Boot, Jennifer Rubin, Jeff Flake, and John Kasich.
Thank you for reminding us of the existence of one-world, open borders globalists who claim to be "staunch conservatives." I'm unconvinced your list is even accurate, as The New American regularly publishes Pat Buchanan's op-eds.
JBS is a consistently conservative organization, significantly more consistent than others on issues such as immigration, trade, limited government, executive power, and the con-con. J. Edgar Hoover (a notorious deep-stater) is not going to be the arbiter of how we treat JBS. Also, the defamation case you mentioned by decided (in 1974) by the same judges that legalized abortion (and the case was 5-4). --1990'sguy (talk) 14:42, 25 March 2019 (EDT)
Not sure why you refer to the Koch brothers in a critical way -- especially since Robert Welch asked Charles Koch to become a JBS National Council member. With respect to your critical comments re: J. Edgar Hoover, it is noteworthy that Robert Welch and every senior officer of the JBS totally disagreed with your personal opinions.
In fact, in 1965, Dr. James D. Bales, a professor at Harding College in Searcy, Arkansas contacted the FBI to inquire into whether or not J. Edgar Hoover would object to Bales' compiling statements made by Hoover about Communism and publishing them in book form. J. Edgar Hoover rejected the idea. Then, in June of 1967, the idea was resurrected by representatives of the John Birch Society. Douglas C. Morse, Managing Editor of the JBS publishing arm, Western Island Publishers, contacted the Boston FBI office to again propose the idea.
FBI Assistant-Special-Agent-In Charge Troy Coleman met with Mr. Morse and JBS founder Robert Welch at JBS offices to discuss the matter. Hoover's public statements were to be compiled by Dr. Bales and published by the Birch Society under the title "J. Edgar Hoover On Communism."
A Bureau memo summarizes the encounter with Robert Welch:
"Mr. Welch advised he had the greatest admiration for the Director and that the captioned book was intended as an instrument against communism. He said he felt the statements on the subject from Mr. Hoover would be taken as statements from the world's greatest authority on the matter of communism..."

However, J. Edgar Hoover flatly rejected the JBS proposal--just as was previously the case when Dr. Bales contacted the FBI. Subsequently, Robert Welch inquired if Hoover would withdraw his opposition to publication of the book if it contained an explicit disclaimer pointing out that the book was not endorsed by Hoover. Hoover instructed the Boston Field Office to reject that idea too.
Here are just a few examples of comments made by senior JBS officials regarding Hoover:
JBS Bulletin, July 1961, p 11
But we have been equally emphatic at all times in expressing our confidence in J. Edgar Hoover and in the FBI under his direction.”
Robert Welch 11/20/64 letter to J. Edgar Hoover after seeing Boston newspaper article regarding Hoover’s criticisms of Welch at an 11/18/64 press conference:
I can only hope that in time I may still earn your respect, simply by continuing to put all that I am and that I have into the same fight as your own. With all good wishes to you in the meantime, for your continued great service to our country, I am, Sincerely, Robert Welch” [FBI HQ file 62-104401, serial #2381, 11/20/64 letter by Welch]
Hattiesburg MS American, 5/5/65, p4 “John Birch Society Representative Discusses Talk He Will Make Tonight” re Reed Benson (the National PR Director of the JBS):
Benson praised the dedication of J. Edgar Hoover who he said is the foremost authority on Communism. ‘I fear and tremble at thought of the day when he will be out of the FBI’ Benson said.”

Thomas J. Davis, JBS Eastern Regional Director (White Plains NY) wrote to Hoover on 10/26/65:

I continue to look upon the Bureau and its work with tremendous pride and admiration. Its efforts, under your direction, have so obviously been instrumental in preserving the security of the United States of America. God bless you and keep you strong.” [FBI NYC file 100-144497, #223; Davis sent another letter of praise to Hoover on 3/4/66.]

ALSO see October 1966 issue of JBS magazine, American Opinion, for article entitled, "The Wisdom and Warning of J. Edgar Hoover".
Interesting, but I'm sure not what your point is. The smear by Buckley of JBS is well-documented, and even obvious from a YouTube linked to in the entry. J. Edgar Hoover was praised by many for helping stem the infiltration of communists into the Deep state. To which of this, if any, you object?--Andy Schlafly (talk) 20:08, 23 June 2019 (EDT)