Difference between revisions of "Talk:World History Homework Eleven - Model"

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(Canada a colony during WWI?: reply)
(Canada a colony during WWI?: It's not clear to me.)
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::::: Edmund, do a search on Google on: Canada colony "World War I".  Endless sites refer to Canada as a colony during World War I.  The term "dominion" is obscure at best; Canada was a colony of Britain during WWI.  Yet Clement suggested that this was a mistake in my teaching.  Someone who insists that someone else is wrong should at least have his facts right, don't you think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:48, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
 
::::: Edmund, do a search on Google on: Canada colony "World War I".  Endless sites refer to Canada as a colony during World War I.  The term "dominion" is obscure at best; Canada was a colony of Britain during WWI.  Yet Clement suggested that this was a mistake in my teaching.  Someone who insists that someone else is wrong should at least have his facts right, don't you think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:48, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
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:::::: FWIW, I did a quick Google, and found that Canada became a self-governing dominion of the British Empire in 1867.  [http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ca-canada] The first Canada Day, known then as Dominion Day, was celebrated on July 1st, 1867. [http://www.imagescanada.ca/r1-250-e.html]  However, it's not clear whether Canada had a clear-cut specific moment of independence from the British Empire, as discussed [http://www.filibustercartoons.com/dominion.htm here] and [http://www.answers.com/topic/canada-day here], and [http://academickids.com/encyclopedia/d/do/dominion.html here] or [http://www.indopedia.org/Dominion.html#Phasing-out_of_the_term_in_Canada here]. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 00:04, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Revision as of 23:04, 27 April 2009

IMO, some of the answers - and their evaluation - are a little bit problematic.

  • The Great War was not a suburbian soccer match where the mothers of the players pretend not to keep score. Germany asked for an armistice. Unconditionally. Austria-Hungary, too. To stay in the picture above: that's the diplomatic equivalent of crying uncle. Yes, they have lost. Big time.
  • Italy hadn't entered the war on the side of the central forces. It choose to enter the war on side of the allied forces in 1915. The history of Italians alliances is quite complex, but it seems to be not fair to implicate that they switched sides during the war. They just picked their team late. BTW, the musings of B. Mussolini were as important to these processes as were the opinions of H. Clinton to the War in the Gulf: just another flip-flopping politician of the opposition
  • Russia: you accepted answers like
  • The Allies won the “Great War” or World War I in 1918
  • The Triple Entente won World War I.
  • The Allies (Britain, France, Russia, Italy, Japan, and United States) won World War I. and even
  • Britain, France, Russia, and America gained more power and land than any other country, but they all lost a large amount of men in World War I.

FYI: Russia wasn't represented in Versailles, it isn't counted with the victors. The triple entente was dead in 1918. And Russia lost more land and population than any other country.

For educational purposes, you should look at a map of Europe before - and after the Great War. The shifted frontiers give a clue which countries had lost - and which hadn't.

Clement ♗ 11:03, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

Clement, your rant is a criticism looking for a flaw. The problem is that you haven't found a flaw. I don't think any of my students tried to use a word "suburbian" either, as you do.
If you can identify a specific error, then let's see it. So far, you haven't been able to do that, although obviously you are trying very hard.--Andy Schlafly 15:04, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
suburban / suburbian - sorry for the i: Your students have good spelling skills. Color me impressed.
However: A student should be able - after taking your lesson - to identify the parties of the Great War. As you outlined, the outcome of the war lead to many grudges held by different nations, and these grudges played an important role in the time to come.
And I don't want to talk about subtleties like Canada, New Zealand and Australia not being colonies at the time of the war, but dominions.
No, it's about the part two of the major participants had in this war.
Clement ♗ 16:20, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
Clement, failing to find a specific error, you resort to vague generalities, questionable opinion, and debatable semantics (e.g., a dominion is subservient to the British monarch as a colony is).
Keep looking. Thanks and Godspeed.--Andy Schlafly 16:50, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
I don't understand you: You are lambasting me for inserting an i in suburban, but you don't have a problem with the sentence ''Britain, France, Russia, and America gained more power and land than any other country, but they all lost a large amount of men in World War I.? That's part of a fantastic analysis...
Clement ♗ 17:06, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
If you think that statement is wrong, then which country do you think gained more land than that group? Again, your lack of specificity reflects a lack of identifiable errors. And surely you don't doubt the loss of life by those four nations, or their gain in power.--Andy Schlafly 17:10, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
What land did Russia gain? What power? It became place of a civil war, and Poland defeated in the Battle of Warsaw in 1920! To be as specific as it seems to be necessary: Russia didn't gain power due to the Great War. Russia did lose land due to the Great War.
Clement ♗ 17:27, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
That took some time. A propos vague generalities: Do you see the problem with this sentence The Allies (Britain, France, Russia, Italy, Japan, and United States) won World War I now? It is less problematic than the statement discussed above, but as the teacher, you should at a comment to this one, too.
Or this good answer: In World War One, no one really “won” in the true sense of the word; the frontiers remained much as they had been before the war .
What about Poland, the Baltic States, the Free town of Danzig - the whole Ottoman Empire dissolved! Clement ♗ 00:52, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
Clement, you misunderstand or overlook the meaning of the word "frontier". You also seem excessively critical. Are you as critical of liberals, or this yet another example of a double standard common among liberals?--Andy Schlafly 17:30, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Canada a colony during WWI?

Clement claimed that Canada was not a colony of Britain during WWI, but everything I've seen demonstrates that Canada was not yet independent.--Andy Schlafly 17:32, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

  • You are completely correct, Andy.

"It was the First World War that accelerated the process to independence. The major colonies played a role of such magnitude that they no longer could be considered mere colonies of Great Britain.
The international status of Canada evolved rapidly in the post-World War period: in 1919, Canada was one of the signers of the Treaty of Versailles and was elected as an independent member of the League of Nations. In 1926, the Balfour resolution was adopted at the Imperial Conference. Arthur Balfour presented this resolution to the Imperial conference of the self-governing dominions. In it Great Britain recognized that the Dominions were "autonomous communities within the British Empire, equal in status, in no way subordinate to one another in any aspect of their domestic or external affairs, though united by a common allegiance to the Crown and freely associated as members of the British Commonwealth of Nations". Thus, by 1931, Canada and the other Dominions had become "autonomous communities...equal in status" to Great Britain." [1]

--₮K/Admin/Talk 18:32, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Andy I think that you have entirely missed his point. Clement sought to draw a distinction between the status of colony and that of dominion. He didn't say that Canada was independent. I think his point was that Canada was more properly referred to as a dominion at the time. Whether that is a distinction of any significance I don't know. I note that he referred to the issue as a subtlety and said that he did not wish to raise the point. Obviously the far more significant issue for him was the characterisation of Russia's post-war situation. --EdmundB 19:41, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
Well, clearly Canada's legal status, during World War I was that of a colony, and by 1931 it was considered autonomous with the Balfour resolution being implemented. It is too picky to quibble over public perceptions, rather than the information I gave above, detailing the legal definition, and that is it was certainly not an autonomous dominion prior to 1930. If not that, it was a colony, and by any other name, it still was one. --₮K/Admin/Talk 20:08, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
TK, I think you may not have understood your own quote. The quote does not draw the distinction that you appear to suggest, between British controlled colonies and independent dominions. Dominions may or may not be independent. Your quote merely says that by 1931 the dominions had become autonomous communities. That is not why they were called dominions. Canada had used the dominion title since 1867 without gaining any extra autonomy or new powers with the title change. I suspect that might have been what Clement was talking about (aboot?). I think that Andy may have made the same mistake, equating the dominion title with independence. I believe that the process is slightly more subtle than that with dominion standing somewhere in between colony and independence. --EdmundB 20:53, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
Edmund, do a search on Google on: Canada colony "World War I". Endless sites refer to Canada as a colony during World War I. The term "dominion" is obscure at best; Canada was a colony of Britain during WWI. Yet Clement suggested that this was a mistake in my teaching. Someone who insists that someone else is wrong should at least have his facts right, don't you think?--Andy Schlafly 21:48, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
FWIW, I did a quick Google, and found that Canada became a self-governing dominion of the British Empire in 1867. [2] The first Canada Day, known then as Dominion Day, was celebrated on July 1st, 1867. [3] However, it's not clear whether Canada had a clear-cut specific moment of independence from the British Empire, as discussed here and here, and here or here. --Hsmom 00:04, 28 April 2009 (EDT)