Difference between revisions of "Talk:Young mass murderers"

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(A Growing Problem?: reply)
(Colorado killer)
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::: No, I think it is a growing problem.  I've heard the claims that it was constant or even declining from the 1970s (Vietnam Era) through Columbine (1999), but I think that's outdated now.  4+ big incidents in one year (2007), totaling 50 dead and many injured, plus numerous arrests including some yesterday for foiled attempts, is more than any time in 30 years, I think.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:12, 9 December 2007 (EST)
 
::: No, I think it is a growing problem.  I've heard the claims that it was constant or even declining from the 1970s (Vietnam Era) through Columbine (1999), but I think that's outdated now.  4+ big incidents in one year (2007), totaling 50 dead and many injured, plus numerous arrests including some yesterday for foiled attempts, is more than any time in 30 years, I think.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:12, 9 December 2007 (EST)
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== Colorado killer ==
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The Colorado killer does not meet the previous definition of young:  "Still in school, or out of school and less than, say, 21."  Besides, he was a Christian-hater too.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:16, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Revision as of 02:16, December 11, 2007

"Mass Murder"

This is a very strong term, and here, it seems to be used disturbingly broadly, so what's the exact definition? Does suicide count into the "mass"? Is somebody who kills himself and one other person a mass murderer? --Jenkins 15:21, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Well, apparently, "mass murder" now also means "wounding and intending to kill many people" since Andy reverted my edit. I won't bother to make additional edits to this. Already got a warning block for this (among other things, like the high crime of cleaning up Conservative's mess), so whatever. --Jenkins 16:55, 7 December 2007 (EST)
Yes, the title is awkward, but we know what it means. I'm open to suggestions and can "move" the article to a new title if a better one can be found. --Ed Poor Talk 17:00, 7 December 2007 (EST)
"but we know what it means" - Ed, I'm glad that you (or Andy) weren't around when Britannica or other encyclopedias were looking for editors. Since this article is in the mainspace and thus a part of an encyclopedia (and since there is no article text giving this table any context), the headline has to be correct and not some wishy-washy "Yeah, I know it's wrong, but it sounds great!" placeholder.
I would vote for a move to Andy's userspace since the entire point of this article table is to give Andy a more convenient way of mocking liberals ("Liberal response: Poem comparing it to environmental harm" - Gosh, other people call that "victims trying to deal with a tragedy", but hey, whatever works to make a cheap point!) and casting tragedies into a light that makes me doubt that the table is supposed to be more than satire ("Belief: wore black entirely", "Belief: targeted Christmas shoppers" - I feel like I'm reading The Onion.).
To be honest, I don't see much encyclopedic value in this table. Especially not in its current form with the columns and "beliefs" mentioned above. If we cut out the "Liberal response" column, clean up the last column, find all sorts of sources, and write an entire article around the table, then we could move it to "List of school shootings" or something (which in turn might be a candidate for a category instead of a dedicated article).
But that is somewhat like trying to rebuild a car when you just start with one damaged wheel: Sure, you could repair the wheel and then build a car around it, but why not just build a car in a more logical order (starting with a motor or chassis)?
Maybe move the table to some workbench outside the mainspace and see if people are dedicated enough to tinker with it. --Jenkins 17:35, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Jenkins, I didn't read through all of your long-winded comments above. But as I said on your talk page, a Wiki is for adding and/or improving information, not deleting it. If you can improve, then do so, but don't delete information and serve the role of a censor. Go to Wikipedia to do that, where censors delete conservative information daily.--Aschlafly 17:43, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Andy, why do you even reply when you didn't read my post? Words fail me. Not even going to bother replying to your completely messed-up idea of improving the wiki ("You must not remove information added by me, no matter how little it has to do with the title"). Oh, and thanks for blocking me for cleaning up the mess caused by one of your High Quality Editors and accusing me of censorship. That sure motivates me! --Jenkins 17:57, 7 December 2007 (EST)

"wore black entirely,"

ROUND UP THE NUNS!!!! I THINK SISTER MARY ELLEN IS PACKING HEAT!!!!!!

What about ninjas? They wear all black, and we know they're bad. Black = evil.

and Italian widows.

Young mass murderers

What is the criteria? Under 30? Under 25? And does a shooting in December qualify the murderer as anti-Christian? Maestro 09:17, 8 December 2007 (EST)

Hey, does one poem someone wrote on a blog really count as a response for all liberals? Or just one person? Maestro 16:59, 8 December 2007 (EST)

That was the official Virginia Tech poem. It's probably somewhere on the Virginia Tech now, as it was after the tragedy.--Aschlafly 17:03, 8 December 2007 (EST)
What is the cutoff for "young"? It's the same definition as for anything else. Still in school, or out of school and less than, say, 21.--Aschlafly 17:03, 8 December 2007 (EST)
So then the VA Tech guy doesn't count then? He was 23. Maestro 18:44, 8 December 2007 (EST)
Dude, where's your logic? Of course the Virginia Tech killer satisfies the definition of "young". Please read it again, and apply logic this time.--Aschlafly 18:47, 8 December 2007 (EST)
By your "logic", Constance Clark would have been a "young mass murderer" if she had gone on a killing spree during her last university year (at age 50). It somehow appears as if you're deliberately setting the goalposts to include all students while still pretending to only focus on young ones.
Do I regard a 23 old man as "young"? Not really. He's old enough to drink, drive and vote (just not in that order, please...), so calling him "young" is misleading. --Jenkins 19:54, 8 December 2007 (EST)

A Growing Problem?

Andy, you said on the Main Talk Page that, "...this problem is growing: there were 4 mass murders...in 2007. How many will there be in 2008?" I'm afraid that's not accurate--there's been a fairly steady number of such incidents for at least a decade. Googling "school shootings" will bring up various timelines going back years with much fodder for this article. --RossC 14:23, 9 December 2007 (EST)

It's certainly been growing since the mid 90s, though. There was a wave of school shootings in 1997-1999, and copycat incidents have happened since. I just wrote a paper for my college class using statistics from 1995, and the writers then were arguing that school violence was relatively rare. And it certainly wasn't as much of a threat in the 1970s. It's growing, even though there may be variance year to year. DanH 14:24, 9 December 2007 (EST)
Yes, absolutely. I wonder, too, how much of the sense of a "growing" problem is a function of the greater availability of news via the Internet, which started hitting its stride in the mid-90s. A lot of the "lesser" pre-Net incidents might be buried out of public attention in local papers.--RossC 14:57, 9 December 2007 (EST)
No, I think it is a growing problem. I've heard the claims that it was constant or even declining from the 1970s (Vietnam Era) through Columbine (1999), but I think that's outdated now. 4+ big incidents in one year (2007), totaling 50 dead and many injured, plus numerous arrests including some yesterday for foiled attempts, is more than any time in 30 years, I think.--Aschlafly 15:12, 9 December 2007 (EST)

Colorado killer

The Colorado killer does not meet the previous definition of young: "Still in school, or out of school and less than, say, 21." Besides, he was a Christian-hater too.--Aschlafly 21:16, 10 December 2007 (EST)