Template talk:Nationalism

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This is the current revision of Template talk:Nationalism as edited by RobSmith (Talk | contribs) at 05:55, September 8, 2021. This URL is a permanent link to this version of this page.

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This weaponization of the term Nationalism probably isn't going to work. This Template probably ought to be deleted and the nationalism article improved first. RobSFree Kyle! 15:12, August 29, 2021 (EDT)

Question: Are Socialists who call for nationalization of industry Nationalists? For example Ilhan Omar: "The time to nationalize healthcare and the supply chain is now'". Is Ilhan Omar a National Socialist? Sound like it to me. She opposes private sector crony capitalism. RobSFree Kyle! 15:20, August 29, 2021 (EDT)

Why are some globalists in the template?

I noticed Lyndon Johnson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Hillary Clinton are in the template, along with some other people who were not there before. The three figures above were/are globalists who supported wasteful foreign wars that hurt American sovereignty and are all liberal Democrats. Nationalism is a conservative trait and typically associated with Republicans. The newer people added to this template should be removed, and the template should go back to what it was before these additions. -Mr. Nationalist (talk) 18:21, September 5, 2021 (EDT)

It's an interesting debate. The term "globalist" and "globalism" did not come into existence to the 1960s and was probably invented by Marshall McLuhan. Its meaning has changed since then. Was FDR an "internationalist"? Yes. Now explain what FDR meant by "Rendezvous with Destiny", and how Democrat voters received its meaning at the time. As to LBJ, his whole purpose in launching the Vietnam war was to achieve "national unity" between black and white in a desegregated armed services. it was part of his domestic civil rights program more than a continuation of Truman-era Cold War containment. Hillary? I've personally heard enough of her speeches to her constituents, referring to the damage the Republicans are doing to "our country", witness for example the "Contract on America" to say she is a dyed-in-the-wool fascist Nazi and Nationalist with a capital "N".
There is always a problem when you try to backdate a contemporary political lexicon to previous generations and eras, and ignore the language and idioms use at a previous time. RobSFree Kyle! 19:01, September 5, 2021 (EDT)
Long story short, in spite of the fact FDR founded the UN and Hillary the Clinton Foundation, we have to look at the fascist and Nationalist rhetoric they used to gain their popularity and support within the Democrat party. RobSFree Kyle! 19:10, September 5, 2021 (EDT)
Hillary Clinton. RobSFree Kyle! 19:21, September 5, 2021 (EDT)
If Hillary Clinton is a globalist, judging by the enthusiastic reaction of the audience here, we'd have to consider the Obama Democrat coalition as a bunch of racist nationalists. RobSFree Kyle! 13:02, September 6, 2021 (EDT)
Here's the problem: your attempts to divide these leaders into two competing camps of globalist and nationalist makes no provision for career criminals and opportunists. Does the GOP have similar within its ranks? Of course. Is the number of those career criminal opportunists anywhere near what exists in the Democrat camp, particularly at the top of the food chain? Not really. Are GOP voters anywhere near as susceptible to racist appeals to nationalism as Democrats have displayed all the way back to the New Deal? Personally, I do not believe so, and would not make the statement if I personally did not believe the evidence exists to make a clear and convincing case for that position. RobSFree Kyle! 13:34, September 6, 2021 (EDT)

I still disagree. While Dems have campaigned on national unity, that does not necessarily make them Nationalist. It is simply a phony attempt at patriotism, and really is more of an attempt to somehow create a nationalist appeal to deceive people into supporting their globalist agenda. While Democrats can definitely be criticized for totalitarian appeals, and the examples that you have cited above are examples of that, it just doesn't seem right to lump the so-called "big-n nationalists" with the "small-n nationalists" at the same time when the template was made for the "small-n nationalists". Perhaps creating another template or category for these Democrats could solve the problem. -Mr. Nationalist (talk) 19:29, September 7, 2021 (EDT)

This whole thing isn't going to work, dividing the planet into forward looking globalists and racist nationalists. I think the Nationalism article itself should be improved before you start a Template like this. RobSFree Kyle! 01:54, September 8, 2021 (EDT)
Bottomline: we know nationalism is being used as a codeword for racist, so we're just not going there. RobSFree Kyle! 01:55, September 8, 2021 (EDT)