Difference between revisions of "User talk:KSorenson"

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(KSorenson, logic does not require so much verbosity. If you have an experiment that would falsify the claim that black holes exist, let's hear it.)
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::::::The black-hole solutions to the Einstein field equations make clear predictions about the characteristics of such a region of spacetime, and thus are ''entirely'' falsifiable. In fact, much work has been done by astronomers and theoreticians alike to find any evidence, observational or mathematical, that casts doubt on those predictions. So far, all the math and all the observations are consistent with the predictions of the four known point-mass solutions. The fact that a set of predictions is thus far ''not falsified'' is not the same as saying that those predictions are ''unfalsifiable.'' I just don't see the point in lying about that.--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 15:13, 12 November 2009 (EST)
 
::::::The black-hole solutions to the Einstein field equations make clear predictions about the characteristics of such a region of spacetime, and thus are ''entirely'' falsifiable. In fact, much work has been done by astronomers and theoreticians alike to find any evidence, observational or mathematical, that casts doubt on those predictions. So far, all the math and all the observations are consistent with the predictions of the four known point-mass solutions. The fact that a set of predictions is thus far ''not falsified'' is not the same as saying that those predictions are ''unfalsifiable.'' I just don't see the point in lying about that.--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 15:13, 12 November 2009 (EST)
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:::::::KSorenson, logic does not require so much verbosity.  If you have an experiment that would falsify the claim that black holes exist, let's hear it.  If not, then concede the obvious: black holes are not falsifiable.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:10, 12 November 2009 (EST)

Revision as of 17:10, 12 November 2009

I found your edit summary to be misleading for black holes.--Andy Schlafly 22:41, 11 November 2009 (EST)

I'm sorry. I'll fix it.--KSorenson 22:43, 11 November 2009 (EST)
Okay, I resubmitted my changes with a more descriptive edit summary. Thank you very much for calling my attention to it.--KSorenson 22:47, 11 November 2009 (EST)

You didn't insert a "clarification" of the falsifiability defect in the theory of black holes, you deleted it. So again I found your edit summary to be misleading.

More generally, this is not Wikipedia where liberal distortions of science dominate. We tell the truth here. The black hole entry is no exception.--Andy Schlafly 23:08, 11 November 2009 (EST)

I beg your pardon, sir? I most certainly did not delete it. Perhaps you overlooked it because I moved it to the bottom of the article? Or perhaps it's because I omitted rewrote it without the word "falsifiability," which … well, to put it bluntly was misleading. The Schwarzchild and Kerr metrics are certainly falsifiable.
In either case, I will happily restore that sentence (or sentences; I'm not looking at the draft right now) and re-submit. If you still think the existing article is the better choice, then please (obviously) feel free to revert a third time, and I will leave it at that.
Though I would very much like to work with you to come up with a draft of the article that you'll accept. The Schwarzchild and Kerr metrics are fascinating, and I'm afraid I have to say that the existing article on black holes is not as good as it could be.
Thank you again for your feedback.--KSorenson 23:16, 11 November 2009 (EST)

K, you're fighting a losing battle here and will probably get banned for your troubles. Mr. Schlafly is an expert on black holes, and unless there is something you can add to the article that fits with a proper conservative view of the topic, you're best off to leave it alone. MichaelHWC 23:26, 11 November 2009 (EST)

I wasn't trying to fight any battles at all. I was just trying to contribute. Maybe you're right, though. Since I honestly don't know what a "proper conservative view" of the Schwarzchild solution would be, maybe I should bow out. Thanks for taking the time to offer your advice; I appreciate it very much.--KSorenson 23:39, 11 November 2009 (EST)
Please stick around! You seem willing to work with the admins on this so I don't think there will be any problems. Your changes are welcome. We need more competent math and science editors! --MarkGall 08:54, 12 November 2009 (EST)
I don't know about needing better editors, but this site certainly needs some better articles. I was trying to help with that, but Aschlafly's condescension and confrontational attitude really soured my taste for it. Some additional reading I did last night to try to better understand his point of view put me off even further. I'm unsure how to work with someone who writes these things then tries to start an argument over "falsifiability" in advanced theoretical physics.--KSorenson 12:57, 12 November 2009 (EST)
I won't deny that I've had my share of arguments with Mr. Schlafly about math and science articles. That doesn't mean that it's impossible to continue to edit here, or that the edits can't be useful to their many readers. I have successfully worked together with him on several other articles. I encourage you to do the same. --MarkGall 14:14, 12 November 2009 (EST)
If Aschlafly wants the students who read this site to be told that black hole theory is not universally agreed upon, that's fine with me. If he wants them to be told that some people doubt whether black holes can exist in nature, that's okay with me too, because it's true. But he should be able to tell students those things without lying to them.
The black-hole solutions to the Einstein field equations make clear predictions about the characteristics of such a region of spacetime, and thus are entirely falsifiable. In fact, much work has been done by astronomers and theoreticians alike to find any evidence, observational or mathematical, that casts doubt on those predictions. So far, all the math and all the observations are consistent with the predictions of the four known point-mass solutions. The fact that a set of predictions is thus far not falsified is not the same as saying that those predictions are unfalsifiable. I just don't see the point in lying about that.--KSorenson 15:13, 12 November 2009 (EST)
KSorenson, logic does not require so much verbosity. If you have an experiment that would falsify the claim that black holes exist, let's hear it. If not, then concede the obvious: black holes are not falsifiable.--Andy Schlafly 18:10, 12 November 2009 (EST)