View source for Debate:Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal

<div style="position:absolute; z-index:-1;position:absolute; top:-100px; right:-500px; ">[[File:President Barack Obama.jpg]]</div>Which is true? progressive or regressive, which best describes liberals. Democrats wanting to put a new moniker on their actions and wish not to be trapped by the negativety surrounding the word liberal. Progressive is a nice sound bite that they can be proud of, but is it true? Everything a liberal believes in gay rights, abortion rights, bigger government, higher taxes still is part of their thinking. These actions are a drain on our country, that to me is regressive. Progressive is just putting a dress on a pig, but it is still a pig.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 00:00, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

:Giving rights to homosexuals puts a drain on our country?--[[User:Άθεος|Άθεος]] 16:14, 16 April 2007 (EDT)


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:For a start this is a very poor question. You launch into one huge diatribe without a break, you seek to answer the question your self. If this is a rhetorical question for you why pose it in a debate? Additionally it displays a sever degree of cultural autism. An inability of the questioner to consider another position, a mere knee jerk rejection of all that the author opposes.

:The truth is that a liberal person, describing their philosophy as "progressive" is simply a classic example of framing. This is a sometimes subtitle art where in the word or words that you use to describe your position seeks to frame the debate. If we use the abortion debate as an example, one side describes its self as pro-life, the other as pro-choice. Why not pro-life and anti-life or anti-choice and pro-choice? It is quite simply that a pro-life person wants to frame the abortion debate in the context of life and the right to life, and to ignore the issue of parental choice, the pro-choice person seeks to do the opposite. 

:Then to the question of what is progressive. Well that depends on what your aim, for instance if you are a homosexual, then the prospect of expanding gay rights, which necessarily would be your rights, would seem very reasonably like progress to you. Additionally if you don't have health insurance, a government plan to provide you with health insurance sounds like progress. Conservatism by contrast seeks to resist or undo change, and this resistance of change can be framed as an unwillingness to progress. 

:So I would say the answer depends on your position, and where you want to be. 

:--[[User:Irish|Irish]] 20:01, 5 July 2007 (EDT)

Progressivism is a set of ideas, you might want to look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

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