View source for Talk:Operation Paperclip

We're not even going to start playing this game.  If you wish to make the claim von Braun, or anyone for that matter, was a "Nazi scientist", please present evidence any such person was (a) a Nazi Party member, or (b) involved in any Nazi atrocities or War Crimes at the time you make the insertion.  Thank you.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:29, 4 September 2007 (EDT)
:I did, but apparently paper sources aren't allowed on this site. [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 16:53, 26 September 2007 (EDT)
::The question is methodolgy.  The cite you gave was dated 1997.  While it may be good, it likewise may be quite the opposite.

::WP does have one good article I would highly recommend, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method#External_criticism:_authenticity_and_provenance Historical method], beginning with "authenticity and provenance."  As a primary source research historian, its become habit to depend on these rigorous standards.  It is very, very easy for lies & disinformation to be perpetuated over time.  Here's a very simple example from yesterday: smoeone put in the [[Jesse Helms]] entry, 
:::"According to an article The News and Observer on 8/26/01, while working on the 1950 campaign of Republican Willis Smith against Democrat Frank Porter Graham, Helms helped create an ad that read "White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters, in your mills and factories? Frank Graham favors mingling of the races." 
::The source document reads, 
:::"The animosity between Helms and black leaders goes back to Helms' entrance into politics in 1950, when he helped organize a rally that persuaded Raleigh lawyer Willis Smith to stay in the U.S. Senate race against Frank Porter Graham, a former president of the University of North Carolina.
:::"Smith won after a campaign featuring a newspaper ad that said, "White people, wake up before it is too late. Do you want Negroes working beside you, your wife and your daughters in your mills and factories? Frank Graham favors mingling of the races."
:::"Helms went to Washington as an administrative aide to Smith.
::A google search of "Frank Graham favors mingling of the races+Helms" yields 916 hits [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&q=Frank+Graham+favors+mingling+of+the+races%2BHelms&btnG=Search], including WP, of this virtually cut & pasted [[guilt by association]] smear.  Nowhere does the source document link Helms as a media adviser or creating such an ad, as virtually all these 916 links, with the exception of the lone republished print of the orignal source [http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b8990d63719.htm] on the Freerepublic website, state.  And examining the authenticity and provenence of the '''original source''' document, it itself appears to bend over backward to forge a guilt by association smear alleging the same thing, which the original author himself could not do.
::So, the smear on Helms is no different than smears on German citizens, who were in the employ of various Nazi owned enterprises (being [[socialist]]s, all Nazi war related industries were [[collectivelly]] owned by the state) although many of these people were not (1) members of the Nazi party, and (2) racists.
::Put simply, I demand [[primary source]] research data.  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 17:20, 26 September 2007 (EDT)