Difference between revisions of "Talk:The Black Book of Communism"

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For the record, I'm referring to this passage:
 
For the record, I'm referring to this passage:
  
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"Moreover, two of the book's main contributors—Nicolas Werth and Jean-Louis Margolin—as well as Karel Bartosek{{r|LeMonde_Chemin_1997}} publicly disassociated themselves from Courtois' statements in the introduction and criticized his editorial conduct. Werth and Margolin felt Courtois was "obsessed" with arriving at a total of 100 million killed which resulted in "sloppy and biased scholarship"<ref>{{cite book|last=Ghodsee|first=Kristen|date=2017|title=Red Hangover: Legacies of Twentieth-Century Communism|url=https://www.dukeupress.edu/red-hangover|publisher=[[Duke University Press]]|page=140|isbn=978-0822369493|author-link=Kristen Ghodsee}}</ref> and faulted him for exaggerating death tolls in specific countries.{{r|LeMonde_Chemin_1997}}{{r|Gvosdev_2008|p=194}}{{r|Ghodsee_2017|p=123}} They also argued that based on the results of their studies, one can tentatively estimate the total number of the victims at between 65 and 93 million.{{r|LeMonde_Margolin_Werth_1997}} In particular, Margolin, who authored the ''Black Book''{{'}}s chapter on Vietnam, clarified "that he has never mentioned a million deaths in Vietnam".{{r|LeMonde_Chemin_1997}}"
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"Moreover, two of the book's main contributors—Nicolas Werth and Jean-Louis Margolin—as well as Karel Bartosek<ref name=LeMonde_Chemin_1997>{{cite news|last = Chemin| first = Ariane| url=http://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1997/10/31/les-divisions-d-une-equipe-d-historiens-du-communisme_3811179_1819218.html|title=Les divisions d'une équipe d'historiens du communisme [Divisions among the team of historians of Communism]|date=1997-10-30|newspaper=Le Monde.fr|language=fr|issn=1950-6244|access-date=2016-08-03}}</ref> publicly disassociated themselves from Courtois' statements in the introduction and criticized his editorial conduct. Werth and Margolin felt Courtois was "obsessed" with arriving at a total of 100 million killed which resulted in "sloppy and biased scholarship"<ref>{{cite book|last=Ghodsee|first=Kristen|date=2017|title=Red Hangover: Legacies of Twentieth-Century Communism|url=https://www.dukeupress.edu/red-hangover|publisher=[[Duke University Press]]|page=140|isbn=978-0822369493|author-link=Kristen Ghodsee}}</ref> and faulted him for exaggerating death tolls in specific countries.<ref name=LeMonde_Chemin_1997 /><ref name=Gvosdev_2008>{{cite book|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=Q_xTyZUEqkYC|title=The Strange Death of Soviet Communism: A Postscript|last=Gvosdev|first=Nikolas K.|publisher=Transaction Publishers|year=2008|isbn=9781412835176|language=en|via=}}</ref><ref name=Ghodsee_2017>{{cite journal| volume = 4| issue = 2| pages = 115–142| last = Ghodsee| first = Kristen| title = A tale of" Two Totalitarianisms": The crisis of capitalism and the historical memory of communism|journal=History of the Present| date = 2014|url=http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/kristenghodsee/files/history_of_the_present_galleys.pdf| jstor = 10.5406/historypresent.4.2.0115|authorlink=Kristen Ghodsee| doi = 10.5406/historypresent.4.2.0115}}</ref> They also argued that based on the results of their studies, one can tentatively estimate the total number of the victims at between 65 and 93 million.<ref name=LeMonde_Margolin_Werth_1997>{{cite news|url= http://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/1997/11/14/communisme-retour-a-l-histoire_3810094_1819218.html |title= Communisme : retour à l'histoire |newspaper= [[Le Monde]] |first1= Jean-Louis |last1= Margolin |first2= Nicolas |last2= Werth |authorlink2= Nicolas Werth |date= 1997-11-14 |accessdate= 2015-06-14 |trans-title=Communism: Return to the history |language= fr }}</ref> In particular, Margolin, who authored the ''Black Book''{{'}}s chapter on Vietnam, clarified "that he has never mentioned a million deaths in Vietnam".<ref name=LeMonde_Chemin_1997 />"
  
 
[[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 06:36, 27 June 2020 (EDT)
 
[[User:Pokeria1|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1|talk]]) 06:36, 27 June 2020 (EDT)
  
 
{{reflist}}
 
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Revision as of 10:41, June 27, 2020

Any way we can refute Wikipedia and certain people in claiming the book is fraudulent?

Hi. I'm dealing with someone who claims the Black Book of Communism is fraudulent, and he's also claiming that two of the authors are claiming it was fraudulent, citing Wikipedia and some sources it cited.

I need to figure out how to refute those claims, maybe note it in this article while refuting it at the same time. Think you can help.

For the record, I'm referring to this passage:

"Moreover, two of the book's main contributors—Nicolas Werth and Jean-Louis Margolin—as well as Karel Bartosek[1] publicly disassociated themselves from Courtois' statements in the introduction and criticized his editorial conduct. Werth and Margolin felt Courtois was "obsessed" with arriving at a total of 100 million killed which resulted in "sloppy and biased scholarship"[2] and faulted him for exaggerating death tolls in specific countries.[1][3][4] They also argued that based on the results of their studies, one can tentatively estimate the total number of the victims at between 65 and 93 million.[5] In particular, Margolin, who authored the Black Book's chapter on Vietnam, clarified "that he has never mentioned a million deaths in Vietnam".[1]"

Pokeria1 (talk) 06:36, 27 June 2020 (EDT)

  1. ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 Chemin, Ariane. "Les divisions d'une équipe d'historiens du communisme [Divisions among the team of historians of Communism]", 1997-10-30. (fr) 
  2. ↑ Ghodsee, Kristen (2017). Red Hangover: Legacies of Twentieth-Century Communism. Duke University Press. ISBN 978-0822369493. 
  3. ↑ Gvosdev, Nikolas K. (2008). The Strange Death of Soviet Communism: A Postscript (in en). Transaction Publishers. ISBN 9781412835176. 
  4. ↑ Ghodsee, Kristen (2014). "A tale of" Two Totalitarianisms": The crisis of capitalism and the historical memory of communism". History of the Present 4 (2): 115–142. doi:10.5406/historypresent.4.2.0115. http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/kristenghodsee/files/history_of_the_present_galleys.pdf. 
  5. ↑ "Communisme : retour à l'histoire", 1997-11-14. Retrieved on 2015-06-14. (fr) 
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