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:Yes, we can see how 1 Peter 2:13-17 can be understood to refer to a [[theocratic]] form of government, combining both civil and spiritual authority (i.e., no [[separation of church and state]]), as Israel once was under Saul, David, Solomon, and their successors.  But we also have this bitter pill to swallow - the testimony of [[Nebuchadnezzar]] recorded in the [[Book of Daniel]]:

:Yes, we can see how 1 Peter 2:13-17 can be understood to refer to a [[theocratic]] form of government, combining both civil and spiritual authority (i.e., no [[separation of church and state]]), as Israel once was under Saul, David, Solomon, and their successors.  But we also have this bitter pill to swallow - the testimony of [[Nebuchadnezzar]] recorded in the [[Book of Daniel]]:

:*''This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent '''that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.'''''<ref>Daniel 4:17</ref>

:*''This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent '''that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.'''''<ref>Daniel 4:17</ref>

:Given this scripture, [[papal primacy]] is nothing to boast of. When Jesus said ''Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church'', there actually was a separation of civil authority from religious authority, between the Roman occupying force and the Pharisees.  At Jesus' ascension, let's look at Acts 1:2-6:

:Given this scripture, [[papal primacy]] is nothing to boast of.<ref>"Boasting" is a subject Paul covers extensively in Romans and is relevant to this Debate.  You cannot boast of the law and of being a child of God because you were baptized as an infant anymore than a Jew can boast of the law and being a child of God because they were circumcized as an infant.  Certain elements of repentance and faith are necessary. Paul goes on in Romans, "God is not a respecter of persons", which applies to Peter, the Apostolic succession, and the Magisterium.<br>In this series of Debates, to respond to all questions of faith and scripture by citing the authority of Magisterium, is boasting. </ref>  When Jesus said ''Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church'', there actually was a separation of civil authority from religious authority, between the Roman occupying force and the Pharisees.  At Jesus' ascension, let's look at Acts 1:2-6:

{{quotebox|''after that he through the Holy Ghost had '''given commandments unto the apostles''' whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together, '''they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?'''''}}

{{quotebox|''after that he through the Holy Ghost had '''given commandments unto the apostles''' whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. 6 When they therefore were come together, '''they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?'''''}}

:There is much here, but lets glean a few specifics: the Apostles who witnessed his Resurrection, etc., were still of a "carnal mind", looking for restoration of the Kingdom as it was under David, forgetting that Jesus said ''my kingdom is not of this world''. They had not received the Holy Spirit yet.

:There is much here, but lets glean a few specifics: the Apostles who witnessed his Resurrection, etc., were still of a "carnal mind", looking for restoration of the Kingdom as it was under David, forgetting that Jesus said ''my kingdom is not of this world''. They had not received the Holy Spirit yet.