Difference between revisions of "Talk:Homophobia"

Revision as of 05:29, May 27, 2007

Archive(s): 01 02

Anti-homosexual violence

While the FBI reports statistics by victim class or bias motivation, race, religion, sexual orientation and disability, the FBI only reports offender statistics by race; thus it is not possible to measure how much gay-on-gay or gay domestic union violence occurs versus homosexual victims of heterosexual offenders.

The FBI hate crime statistics ONLY report offenses based on bias. Domestic violence and other crimes where bias was not an element are not included in these statistics. (See the various pages of the web site cited in the article.) I'm not sure if the sentence above is trying to subtract crimes against homosexuals that did not involve bias from the 1171 number (which would not make sense, as all of the 1171 involved bias, otherwise they would not have been reported as hate crimes), or if it was an attempt to gauge how much of violence against homosexuals involves bias by comparing crimes that involve bias to crimes that don't. Or perhaps it's something else? I really don't understand what this section is trying to say. RobS, could you clarify your thinking?

Neither do the statistics include senior citizens, homeless, military personnel, or battered pregnant women by boyfriends and husbands after becoming pregnant -- all known victim classes of hate crime attacks.

RobS, I agree that the FBI doesn't include in their hate crime statistics crimes that include bias against senior citizens, or bias against the homeless, or bias against military personnel, or bias against pregnant women. They only include crimes that include bias based on race, religion, ethnicity/national origin, disability, and sexual orientation. I'm not sure, though, why this is relevant? And wouldn't it be clearer to simply list the categories that *are* included, rather than those which aren't? Perhaps I'm dense, but I don't see why crimes that include bias against senior citizens, for example, are relevant?

Violent crimes are defined as murder...<snip>...and other. For the general population, the FBI reports a violent crime rate of 20 victims per 1000 US persons ^[1] or 1 in 50 of the overall population. In all of 2004, there was 1 anti-homosexual murder in the United States, and the FBI has reported none since. ^[2] Over the same time period there were over 32,000 murders and nonnegligent manslaughters reported in the general population. ^[3]

RobS, I *think* what you are trying to say in this paragraph is that there aren't many hate crimes against homosexuals - do I have this right? If so, I think you may be mixing apples and oranges here. The hate crime statistics do not include *all* violent crimes against homosexuals - just those that include bias. So if a homosexual man gets murdered by his lover because he was unfaithful, for example, it's not a hate crime, and thus will not be listed as an "anti-homosexual murder" in the hate crime statistics, but it *would* be considered a violent crime in the violent crime rate statistics. Do you see what I mean? --Hsmom 22:40, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

Hsmom, I could kiss you, I really could. Hell, here you go: mwah! RobS, however, is firmly in denial on this one. --Robledo 22:51, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

I have followed her intelligent comments on homeschooling, and I am with you there. Well, at least, here: hsmom for sysop! Human 22:54, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

Aw shucks, thanks guys - and right before Mother's Day too.--Hsmom 10:52, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

The statistical flaw in the way the FBI compiles statistics, mandated by law, is it creates and defines a "victim class"; then it only defines "offenders" by race. A classic example of "mixing apples and oranges", as defined by law. RobS 16:12, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

RobS, since you haven't answered my concerns here, I've made some changes to the article. I'm sure you'll have some changes to what I wrote too - please try to add to it or adjust it rather than just reverting to the previous version. Let's work together to find a version that is clear and well-cited and focuses on the topic at hand (homophobia).

I still do not understand what you think statistics on offender class would do. I would like to understand your point of view here. I'm guessing that most of the crimes that include racial bias would be done by someone of one race to someone of another, most of the crimes that include sexual-orientation bias would be done by someone of one orientation to someone of another, etc. Do you have a different understanding of these crimes? Can you give a hypothetical example? I am trying to understand your point of view.--Hsmom 10:52, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

"most common usage"

Though the term can be used for a variety of purposes, its most common usage is to criticize people opposed to homosexuality.

I happen to think this statement is correct, or at least is correct as of the last few decades. But I'd like to see sources or evidence presented that confirms it. Dpbsmith 11:16, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

I think we've proven on this talk page several times over the meaning was corrupted from the git go; it was coined to impugn critics of the APA dropping homosexuality as a mental diagnosis, it has persisted, but the failure of legistlators to criminalize what was alleged to be a mental disturbance has led to the theraputic community dropping the term. Its misuse has persisted in popular culture, largely because common people have not got the message that both the legal and threputic professions are dropping the term. And lastly, the accepted theraputic use of the term was applied most often to homosexuals themselves. In sum, popular usage never understood what it meant, and has always been misused. It is little more than an attack term, when it originally was invented to make people think opponents of the homosexual agenda were crazy, not criminal, as it is misued today. RobS 12:34, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

And the citable source that supports "criticism of people opposed to homosexuality" as its most common use is... what? Dpbsmith 08:54, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

"Homophobia-phobia"

This seems to be an unsourced personal essay or opinion by User:Jaques. No source is cited to show that this term has any significant degree of usage. Only 92 Google hits on the term (hits include both with and without the hyphen), a negligible number (compare 1,490,000 for homophobia, 34,900 for phobophobia (fear of fear), 29,200 for heterophobia (fear of heterosexuals), 14,900 for gamophobia (fear of marriage), 11,700 for theophobia (fear of God), 1310 for pantophobia (fear of everything). Dpbsmith 08:54, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Homophobia-Phobia

Because of the fear of homophobia, some homsexuals develop a phobia of homophobes, and may become paranoid to the point that he/she believe everyone who dislike him/her or say anything negative about homosexuality is a homophobe.

Homophobiaphobiaphobia

A condition affecting homophobes who are too frightened to admit that they are homophobic because of widespread phobia against homophobes. Not an official mental condition yet but you heard it here first.

Actully, Homophobiaphobiaphobia means people who are afraid of homosexuals who are afraid of homophobes.