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:The question should be asked why Einstein and MLK Jr. endorsed socialism while both spoke out against Nazis in Germany. MLK Jr. also spoke out against Nazis in the USA after the war, which is probably why a Nazi stormtrooper attacked him in front of a huge crowd. (Who Dr King stopped from ripping the guy limb from limb in response- instead buying the guy a soda and asking him why he was angry.) MLK Jr. was also assassinated by a guy who endorsed Hitler. I know folks here have suggested we paint all socialism as equally evil- but there is a big difference between Hitler and Einstein/MLK Jr. :)  :Einstein helped found the Democratic Party of Germany prior to Hitler's rise to power. The good news is that provides us a solid link from the Democrats to Socialists. The bad news is that damages the claim that the post-election Nazis socialism was at the heart of their desire to enslave or eliminate/"purify" all non Aryan races. You could hardly find two people more dedicated to stamping out racist violence than MLK Jr. and Einstein. Note that Einstein and MLK Jr. were also pacifists, though Einstein recanted specifically with regards to the Nazis during the war, and then switched his view once again back to pacifism afterwards- advocating nuclear disarmament. You might want to take the chance to smear Einstein for that wiffle-waffling (sp), except then the claim could be made that Einstein avoided totalitarian thought by making exceptions to his own rules. :A weaker (yet more truthful) statement that would be easier to defend wold be "the Nazi form of socialism was compatible with their notion of ethnic pride, and also their use of violent racist nationalism. It was also particularly vulnerable to demagoguery while under the economic strain. Nazi socialism was also compatible with both the atheist and Christian beliefs of the German and Italian peoples; although obviously *more* compatible with the atheists due to Marx's desire to push forward materialistic philosophy as the backdrop for his socioeconomic theories. One would think that the liberal and modern moires of socialism wouldn't sufficiently honor the traditions that Hitler tried to reawaken from the time of proto-Germany / proto-Italy (eg the Holy Roman Empire or Christendom ), but apparently identity politics has again made for some strange bedfellows, in the enemy-of-my-enemy sense." Okay that was horrible admittedly, but it at least addressed most of what I thought needed saying. Sorry for the long-winded discussion. {{unsigned|NoahEdelson}}::Nazis first tossed out God, believed the rights of a collective society took precedence over the rights of the individual with a big government to enforce it, and had no respect for human rights. That is what makes them socialists and kinsmen with anyone who calls themself socialist. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Free Kyle!]]} 04:30, 23 May 2021 (EDT)s  Good input RobSmith. One issue with socialists not being into human rights- then why did MLK Jr and Einstein devote the second half of their lives to promoting human and civil rights, touting socialism as a way to end the predatory nature of humanity while defending human rights?Obviously they wre incorrect, and probably knew very little about civil rights issues or the nature of racism beyond that stuff in Selma and uhh leading the whole civil rights movement and stuff. Its frustrating, because everybody else on the planet seems to think that they knew their stuff on those topics. Einstein is regarded as more of a hero than even Jesus, according to a worldwide survey. [https://phys.org/news/2015-05-einstein-hitler-hero-villain-world.html] At least they were both Jewish pacifists (or non-violent people if you prefer) and had similar senses of morality... the reason Jesus came in 2nd is probably because we have represented his values incorrectly, and thus His reputation has suffered. Einstein & MLK did know about the human rights abuses of Germany- however; especially Einstein, who had a Nazi bounty on his head, and wrote letters pleading with the US Gov't to allow his peeps entry before they were put in the camps. He got about 1000 people out that way, and had to prove that each would contribute much to our Nations scientific wealth.. I bet he was dishonest at times when writing those letters- but I wouldn't fault him for it. We shouldn't follow in his footsteps though with the dishonesty- we should mention in the Einstein and MLK Jr articles that they were unapologetic socialists. One issue with the Nazis being atheist- why didn't Himmler allow atheists into the SS, claiming that their "refusal to acknowledge higher powers" was tantamount to a "potential source of lazyness / lack-of-discipline"? According to "The Nazi Persecution of the Churches 1933-1945" By John Conway (page 232) "The majority of the Nazi Party members continued to pay their church taxes and register as either Roman Catholic or Protestants." During Hitler's rein, the percentage of self-identified Christians went down about 4%, then back up a bit near the end, but it never dipped below 95.2%, and was 97.5% in '39. So we are gonna need to fix that ASAP in the main document, but also mention that the Nazi version of Christianity was a heinous misunderstanding of how Jesus wanted us to believe and act. Realizing that is actually what led me to Christ, well that and a nightmare I had where Jesus was screaming at me in a language I didn't understand. Thats when I decided to start the world's first Negative Christian Church- He literally put the fear of God in me.[[User:NoahEdelson|NoahEdelson | I'm new here, sorry for any faux pas. ]] ([[User talk:NoahEdelson|talk]]) 15:48, June 6, 2021 (EDT) :Okay, you've made clear your [[Trent Toulouse]] talking point = all Christians are Nazis. So MLK & Einstein fell for commie agitprop that Socialism represented protection of human rights. Big deal. They weren't the first geniuses on the planet to make themselves look like idiots. And Himmler didn't allow atheists into the SS because the first tenet of Marxist Socialism is swearing off God. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Free Kyle!]]} 16:17, June 6, 2021 (EDT)  Have you finished yet? I keep getting an edit conflict as you fiddle around with your edit.....:CosCo[n]s! You're still at it. See this site, see that. Cons, I hate Fascism and I hate Communism. There may be the odd liberal that agrees with Communism but I have never met one and I bet I've played with, worked with, sung with, travelled with, met, drunk with, and generally interacted with more liberals than you've had cooked dinners. (And that's not counting the women.) I have, however, met the odd right wing wierdo that still considers Hitler the ant's pants. And believe me - they weren't liberals! [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 03:39, 3 March 2013 (EST)

 ::::Ok, See [[Labour party]] for a more balanced article on socialism in Britain. Idon've gone ahead t think it's helpful to conflate socialism and made Marxism (or liberalism, for that matter), particularly in the British case. British socialism was forged from non-conformist protestant Christianity not in the 1800s, when the reform movement led to the co-operative and Labour movements, not in 1700s, when radicals looked to France and the US for new ways of thinking, but in the 1600s in the same crucible that gave is the Pilgrim Fathers. 1649 saw "The World Turned Upside Down" and many saw a chance to turn Britain into a Christian state, starting with land and property reform to bring us closer to the prelapsarian ideal. Ironically, this may be the root of the huge difference - and gulf in understanding - between British and US conservatism. It's no coincidence that, until the 1970s and 80s, it was the British left that looked to the US as an accountexample. Conservatives tended to look within or to Europe. [[User:Rafael|Rafael]] ([[User talk:Rafael|talk]]) 19:03, which I fully expect will get blocked 18 May 2020 (EDT) This leaves me wondering how [[William Blake]] might fit into the picture? --[[User:Timber2|Timber2]] ([[User talk:Timber2|talk]]) 20:29, 18 May 2020 (EDT):SEE BELOW? Does this conversation continue in the next section? --[[User:Timber2|Timber2]] ([[User talk:Timber2|talk]]) 13:12, 19 May 2020 (EDT) ===Roots===The expansion of the "Roots" section might help solve the continuing debate. --[[User:Timber2|Timber2]] ([[User talk:Timber2|talk]]) 13:17, 19 May 2020 (EDT) ==Debate needs a summary== Proponents of socialism like to claim that the [[National Socialism]] of Nazi Germany was by Ken or whoever eventuallyno means socialist. Why do they do that? (What's their motivation?) And are they right? Or are they pulling the wool over our eyes? Snopes asserts that:Nazi Party leaders paid mere lip service to socialist ideals on the way to achieving their one true goal: raw, whatevertotalitarian power. But the same may be said for '''every Communist movement''' of the record20th century. No Communist Party ever "achieved communism" or "true socialism" because that was never their goal. Their aim was always total control, and the excuse they used was that they were "building socialism". So claiming the Nazis weren't socialists because none they didn't actually fulfill [[socialist ideals]] is a red herring. That's like saying the Communists weren't really Communists.  The problem with analyzing socialism is that there are so many lies involved. The Communists of you twits corrected yourselvesChina and Russia and Cuba and so on claimed to be working toward socialism (the [[classless society]] of a communist utopia) but like The Party in ''[[1984]]'' they really wanted one thing more than anything else: power. Fascism and Communism are "totalitarian twins". Let's get to the bottom of this and settle this debate once and for all. Perhaps we can take a look at Dinesh D'Souza or PragerU for further details. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] ^{[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]} 12:39, 19 May 2020 (EDT) :I presume that little dipshit this comment relates to the previous section. I don't know about the people named (Dinesh D'Souza or PragerU ) but with regard to Socialism in Britain [[User:Rafael|Rafael]] comments are very stimulating and I would be interested in what sources he might recommend, and if he plans on adding new content. A fuller discussion of European Socialism is also badly needed. And what about Tolstoy in Russia? --[[User:Timber2|Timber2]] ([[User talk:Timber2|talk]]) 13:05, 19 May 2020 (EDT)::I've always applied a simple solution to the problem Ed so clearly outlined - strip away all pretenses to altruism, and look at (a) the actual record, and (b) which actually defines its true motives and aims. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Live Free or Die]]} 13:43, 19 May 2020 (EDT) ==Intro==The Intro should tell us what socialism is, not what it's not me. The account argument should go later in the Intro or in another subsection. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Z]]} 13:31, May 24, 2022 (EDT):I'm posting from ll revise. Thanks.--[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 14:18, May 24, 2022 (EDT)::You "revised" it to impose a liberal POV by revising it to say what liberals ''think'' Nazism is my one , not what it really is. Let me point out to you again, Jackin the box - this is Conservapedia, not Liberapedia, and only account you're not going to try to impose a liberal POV on CPthe articles you edit here. [[User:Northwest|Northwest]] ([[User talk:Northwest|talk]]) 16:04, May 24, 2022 (EDT):::I liked RobS's use of "extremism". Please check the historical facts before accusing me of being liberal, which was created I am not, or reverting LEGITIMATE edits, based on good sources, not paranoid blogs, by extremists, who claim they are Conservatives!!--[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 17:36, May 24, 2022 (EDT) ::::Thank you. Two points: (1) we can reserve arguments about ===Divergent views=== into its own subsection about "left" and right" (the date use of this postthe term "extremist" kicks the can down the road to "Divergent views"); (2) we need to get away from the idea that National Socialism is (a) an exclusively German phenomenon, and (b) that it was defeated and in the past. Do some basic fact checking Kenit's not. It's very much alive today, it was just given a $40 billion booster shot, Nazi's are NATO proxies, and its one among several major causes of the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian War. Now, Deep State proxies will call that a 'Putin fantasy', but it is not the fantasy of 145 million Russians and the majority of the planet which ''does not'' support NATO or its mercenary psycho killers. [[User:GrammarCommieRobSmith|GrammarCommieRobS]] (^{[[User talk:GrammarCommieRobSmith|talkZ]]} 18:03, May 24, 2022 (EDT) 12 :52::::Oh my, excuse me. I'm an idiot. I just realized this is "Socialism" and not :National socialism". [https://youtu.be/OjYoNL4g5Vg Nevermind]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]^{[[User talk:RobSmith|Z]]} 18 :13, May 2020 24, 2022 (EDT)