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[[File:Richard Dawkins at the Reason Rally.jpg|alt=Richard Dawkins|thumbnail|200px|right|[[Richard Dawkins]] ]]
[[File:Richard Dawkins at the Reason Rally.jpg|alt=Richard Dawkins|thumbnail|200px|right|[[Richard Dawkins]] ]]
'''Elevatorgate''' is a term commonly used to describe a 2011 controversy involving [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] [[Richard Dawkins]]' comments made to atheist [[Rebecca Watson]] which are perceived to have been inappropriate by a sizable portion of the [[Atheism|atheist]] community and to the public at large.<ref>
'''Elevatorgate''' is a term commonly used to describe a 2011 controversy involving [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] [[Richard Dawkins]]' comments made to [[Atheism|atheist]] [[Rebecca Watson]] which are perceived to have been inappropriate by a sizable portion of the [[Atheism|atheist]] community and to the public at large.<ref>
*[http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women? - Salon, July 8, 2011]
*[https://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women? - Salon, July 8, 2011]
*[http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/07/richard-dawkins-chewing-gum Sharing a lift with Richard Dawkins by David Allen Green - New Stateman - 06 July 2011]
*[http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/07/richard-dawkins-chewing-gum Sharing a lift with Richard Dawkins by David Allen Green - New Stateman - 06 July 2011]
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists - Gawker]
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists - Gawker]
*[https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/09/is-richard-dawkins-destroying-his-reputation Is Richard Dawkins destroying his reputation?] by Sophie Elmhirst, ''The Guardian'', June 9, 2015
*[https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/09/is-richard-dawkins-destroying-his-reputation Is Richard Dawkins destroying his reputation?] by Sophie Elmhirst, ''The Guardian'', June 9, 2015
</ref> Watson is a [[feminism|feminist]].<ref>Rebecca Watson (July 5, 2011). "[http://skepchick.org/2011/07/the-privilege-delusion The Privilege Delusion]". Skepchick</ref>
</ref> Watson is a [[feminism|feminist]].<ref>Rebecca Watson (July 5, 2011). "[http://skepchick.org/2011/07/the-privilege-delusion The Privilege Delusion]". Skepchick</ref>
Prior to Elevatorgate, [[Monica Shores]]' 2010 ''Ms. Magazine'' article titled ''Will “New Atheism” Make Room For Women?'' criticized the News Atheism movement for being [[sexism|sexist]] (See also: [[Atheism and sexism]]).<ref name="msmagazine.com">[http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/11/01/will-new-atheism-make-room-for-women/ ''Will “New Atheism” Make Room For Women''] by Monica Shores, ''Ms. Magazine'', 2010</ref> Shores cited [[Conservapedia]] in her article and indicated: "The lack of lady presence is so visible that Conservapedia commented on it by noting that [[Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science website|Dawkins’ website]] overwhelmingly attracts male visitors."<ref>[http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/11/01/will-new-atheism-make-room-for-women/ ''Will “New Atheism” Make Room For Women''] by Monica Shores, ''Ms. Magazine''</ref> See: [[Demographic makeup of web visitors to the website Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science]]
In addition, prior to Elevatorgate Conservapedia created is popular [[Richard Dawkins and women]] and [[Atheism and women]] articles which highlighted the ill-treatment of women by Dawkins and the wider [[atheist population]].
== Rebecca Watson's video about the elevator incident ==
== Rebecca Watson's video about the elevator incident ==
''See also:'' [[Sexual harassment at atheist conferences]]
''See also:'' [[Sexual harassment at atheist conferences]] and [[Atheism and women]] and [[YouTube atheism]]
On June 20, 2011, Rebecca Watson of [[Skepchick]] uploaded a YouTube video in which she complained about a man in an elevator asking her up to his room for coffee at an atheist conference in Dublin, Ireland.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKHwduG1Frk#t=376 About Mythbusters, Robot Eyes, Feminism, and Jokes]</ref> The incident occurred at around 4am in the morning.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKHwduG1Frk#t=376 About Mythbusters, Robot Eyes, Feminism, and Jokes]</ref> Watson was upset by this incident and subsequently blogged about it.
On June 20, 2011, Rebecca Watson of [[Skepchick]] uploaded a [[YouTube]] video in which she complained about a man in an elevator asking her up to his room for coffee at an atheist conference in Dublin, Ireland.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKHwduG1Frk#t=376 About Mythbusters, Robot Eyes, Feminism, and Jokes]</ref> The incident occurred at around 4am in the morning.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKHwduG1Frk#t=376 About Mythbusters, Robot Eyes, Feminism, and Jokes]</ref> Watson was upset by this incident and subsequently blogged about it.
Watson declared in her June 20, 2011 video:
Watson declared in her June 20, 2011 video:
=== Richard Dawkins initial Elevatorgate comments - Dear Muslima letter ===
=== Richard Dawkins initial Elevatorgate comments - Dear Muslima letter ===
[[Image:2402173645 c8e6168fe7.jpg|alt=Richard Dawkins|thumbnail|175px|left|Richard Dawkins]]
[[Image:2402173645 c8e6168fe7.jpg|alt=Richard Dawkins|thumbnail|175px|right|Richard Dawkins]]
''See also:'' [[Richard Dawkins' Elevatorgate comments#Richard Dawkins initial Elevatorgate comments - Dear Muslima letter|Richard Dawkins "Dear Muslima" Elevatorgate letter]] and [[Richard Dawkins quotes]]
''See also:'' [[Richard Dawkins' Elevatorgate comments#Richard Dawkins initial Elevatorgate comments - Dear Muslima letter|Richard Dawkins "Dear Muslima" Elevatorgate letter]] and [[Richard Dawkins quotes]]
Subsequently, Richard Dawkins was widely criticized within the [[Atheist movement|atheist community]] and in various press outlets for his insensitive comments made to atheist Rebecca Watson about the incident which occurred in an elevator (see: [[Richard Dawkins' Elevatorgate comments|Richard Dawkins initial Elevatorgate comments]]).<ref>
Subsequently, Richard Dawkins was widely criticized within the [[Atheist movement|atheist community]] and in various press outlets for his insensitive comments made to atheist Rebecca Watson about the incident which occurred in an elevator (see: [[Richard Dawkins' Elevatorgate comments|Richard Dawkins initial Elevatorgate comments]]).<ref>
*[http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women? - Salon, July 8, 2011]
*[https://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women? - Salon, July 8, 2011]
*[http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/07/richard-dawkins-chewing-gum Sharing a lift with Richard Dawkins by David Allen Green - New Stateman - 06 July 2011]
*[http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/07/richard-dawkins-chewing-gum Sharing a lift with Richard Dawkins by David Allen Green - New Stateman - 06 July 2011]
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists - Gawker]
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists - Gawker]
''See also:'' [[Atheism and women]] and [[Atheism and anger]] and [[New Atheism]]
''See also:'' [[Atheism and women]] and [[Atheism and anger]] and [[New Atheism]]
Post Elevatorgate controversy, at an atheist convention, [[Rebecca Watson]] claimed:
Post Elevatorgate controversy, at an atheist convention, [[Rebecca Watson]] claimed: "Hundreds of atheists have informed me that either they wanted to rape me, someone should rape me so that I will loosen up or that no one would ever rape me because I am so ugly".<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1mLHdTsmPc PZ Myers and the Art of Shameless Dishonesty]</ref>
In July 2012, Watson declared: "It get regular rape threats. I get regular rape and murder threats".<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96FtpDLi_Vw FreeThought Blogs and PZ Myers]</ref> Furthermore, in August 2013, [[Rebecca Watson]] said that post Elevatorgate she received a flood of rape threats and she continues to receive rape threats (see: [[Atheism and rape]]).<ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/06/sikivu-ophelia-and-rebecca-who-says-atheism-lacks-women-stars/ Sikivu, Ophelia, and Rebecca — who says atheism lacks women stars?]</ref>
In July 2012, Watson declared: "It get regular rape threats. I get regular rape and murder threats".<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96FtpDLi_Vw FreeThought Blogs and PZ Myers]</ref> Furthermore, in August 2013, [[Rebecca Watson]] said that post Elevatorgate she received a flood of rape threats and she continues to receive rape threats (see: [[Atheism and rape]]).<ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/08/06/sikivu-ophelia-and-rebecca-who-says-atheism-lacks-women-stars/ Sikivu, Ophelia, and Rebecca — who says atheism lacks women stars?]</ref>
*[[Irreligion and domestic violence]]
*[[Irreligion and domestic violence]]
*[[Atheism and women's rights]]
* [[Atheism and anger]]
* [[Atheism and anger]]
=== Allegation that Rebecca Watson was behaving hypocritically ===
=== Allegation that Rebecca Watson was behaving hypocritically ===
[[File:Rebecca-watson.jpg|thumbnail|150px|Rebecca Watson]]
[[File:Rebecca-watson.jpg|thumbnail|150px|[[Rebecca Watson]]]]
Amanda Read wrote in the ''[[Washington Times]]'' that she believed Watson was behaving hypocritically and declared:
Amanda Read wrote in the ''[[Washington Times]]'' that she believed Watson was behaving hypocritically and declared:
<small>([https://www.flickr.com/photos/constantweader/2404429188/ Flickr] photo, see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/deed.en license agreement])</small> ]]
<small>([https://www.flickr.com/photos/constantweader/2404429188/ Flickr] photo, see [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/deed.en license agreement])</small> ]]
Although major press outlets have covered Elevatorgate,<ref>
Although major press outlets have covered Elevatorgate,<ref>
*[http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women? - Salon, July 8, 2011]
*[https://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women? - Salon, July 8, 2011]
*[http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/07/richard-dawkins-chewing-gum Sharing a lift with Richard Dawkins by David Allen Green - New Stateman - 06 July 2011]
*[http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/07/richard-dawkins-chewing-gum Sharing a lift with Richard Dawkins by David Allen Green - New Stateman - 06 July 2011]
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists - Gawker]
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists - Gawker]
The matter which appeared to spark the contention was how to properly deal with the significant amount of [[misogny]] within the atheist community (see: [[Atheism and women]] and [[Atheism and rape]] and Elevatorgate and [[Women's views of Richard Dawkins]] and [[Atheism, polyamory and other immoral relationships|Atheist leaders and immoral relationships]]).<ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/07/01/thunderf00t-check-your-email/ Thunderf00t, check your email - PZ Myers]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuKH3trPpgY&list=UUmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A&index=1&feature=plcp Thunderf00t on how to handle misogny in the atheist community]</ref><ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/thunderf00t/2012/07/01/skepchickcon-and-the-harassment-lol-icy/ SkepchickCON and the Harassment LOL-icy]</ref><ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/thunderf00t/2012/06/29/is-it-freethoughtblogs-or-group-think-blogs/ Is it ‘Freethoughtblogs’ or ‘Group-think-blogs’?]</ref>
The matter which appeared to spark the contention was how to properly deal with the significant amount of [[misogny]] within the atheist community (see: [[Atheism and women]] and [[Atheism and rape]] and Elevatorgate and [[Women's views of Richard Dawkins]] and [[Atheism, polyamory and other immoral relationships|Atheist leaders and immoral relationships]]).<ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/07/01/thunderf00t-check-your-email/ Thunderf00t, check your email - PZ Myers]</ref><ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuKH3trPpgY&list=UUmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A&index=1&feature=plcp Thunderf00t on how to handle misogny in the atheist community]</ref><ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/thunderf00t/2012/07/01/skepchickcon-and-the-harassment-lol-icy/ SkepchickCON and the Harassment LOL-icy]</ref><ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/thunderf00t/2012/06/29/is-it-freethoughtblogs-or-group-think-blogs/ Is it ‘Freethoughtblogs’ or ‘Group-think-blogs’?]</ref>
Thunderf00t's removal from [[Freethought Blogs]] exemplified [[PZ Myers]]'s unwillingness to intellectually engage his opponents and his lack of integrity.<ref>[https://voxday.net/2012/07/06/free-fascistthoughtblogs/ FreeFascistThoughtBlogs]</ref>
=== Rebecca Watson response to Thunderf00t and his fans ===
=== Rebecca Watson response to Thunderf00t and his fans ===
[[File:Michael Nugent.jpg|thumbnail|right|175px|[[Michael Nugent]] is an Irish atheist.]]
[[File:Michael Nugent.jpg|thumbnail|right|175px|[[Michael Nugent]] is an Irish atheist.]]
Richard Dawkins is still widely criticized for igniting deep fractures in the atheist movement through his Elevatorgate controversy. For example, on November 26, 2013, the atheist activist and blogger [[Jen McCreight]] posted at Twitter the message: "Did anyone on Dawkins AMA ask how he feels about singlehandedly destroying the [[atheist movement]] with the Dear Muslima yet?"<ref>[https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/405391218273554433 Jennifer McCreight on the Twitter about the Elevatorgate scandal]</ref> In December 2013, atheist Jack Vance at Atheist Revolution called July 2, 2011, which is the day that Elevatorgate occurred, "The day the atheist movement died."<ref>[http://www.atheistrev.com/2013/12/the-day-atheist-movement-died.html The Day the Atheist Movement Died] by Jack Vance at Atheist Revolution</ref>
Richard Dawkins is still widely criticized for igniting deep fractures in the atheist movement through his Elevatorgate controversy. For example, on November 26, 2013, the atheist activist and blogger [[Jen McCreight]] posted at Twitter the message: "Did anyone on Dawkins AMA ask how he feels about singlehandedly destroying the [[atheist movement]] with the Dear Muslima yet?"<ref>[https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/405391218273554433 Jennifer McCreight on the Twitter about the Elevatorgate scandal]</ref> In December 2013, atheist Jack Vance at the [[Atheist Revolution]] website called July 2, 2011, which is the day that Elevatorgate occurred, "The day the atheist movement died."<ref>[http://www.atheistrev.com/2013/12/the-day-atheist-movement-died.html The Day the Atheist Movement Died] by Jack Vance at Atheist Revolution</ref>
=== Many secular leftists strongly criticizing Richard Dawkins post-Elevatorgate ===
=== Many secular leftists strongly criticizing Richard Dawkins post-Elevatorgate ===
*[http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119596/appetite-wonder-review-closed-mind-richard-dawkins ''The Closed Mind of Richard Dawkins''], New Republic by John Gray
*[http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119596/appetite-wonder-review-closed-mind-richard-dawkins ''The Closed Mind of Richard Dawkins''], New Republic by John Gray
*[https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/405391218273554433 Jennifer McCreight on the Twitter about the Elevatorgate scandal]
*[https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/405391218273554433 Jennifer McCreight on the Twitter about the Elevatorgate scandal]
*[http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/downs-syndrome-girl-passes-six-4095031 Down's Syndrome girl passes six GCSEs as dad calls Richard Dawkins 'an ignorant idiot'], Mirror by By Grace Macaskill, Aug 23, 2014 15:41
*[https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/downs-syndrome-girl-passes-six-4095031 Down's Syndrome girl passes six GCSEs as dad calls Richard Dawkins 'an ignorant idiot'], Mirror by By Grace Macaskill, Aug 23, 2014 15:41
*[http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/21/the-12-stages-of-a-richard-dawkins-twitter-scandal_n_5698443.html The 12-Stage 'Evolution' Of A Richard Dawkins Twitter Scandal] by Paul Vale, The Huffington Post UK, Posted: 22/08/2014 02:06 BST
*[http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/21/the-12-stages-of-a-richard-dawkins-twitter-scandal_n_5698443.html The 12-Stage 'Evolution' Of A Richard Dawkins Twitter Scandal] by Paul Vale, The Huffington Post UK, Posted: 22/08/2014 02:06 BST
*[http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2011-07-13-sticks-and-stones-may-break-my-bones-but-words-can-rip-my-soul Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can rip my soul]
*[http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2011-07-13-sticks-and-stones-may-break-my-bones-but-words-can-rip-my-soul Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can rip my soul]
== Public announcement of Richard Dawkins and Orphelia Benson ==
== Public announcement of Richard Dawkins and Orphelia Benson ==
[[File:Ophelia Benson.JPG|thumbnail|130px|left|Orphelia Benson
[[File:Ophelia Benson.JPG|thumbnail|130px|right|Orphelia Benson ]]
''See also:'' [[Atheism and profanity]] and [[Atheist hypocrisy]]
''See also:'' [[Atheism and profanity]] and [[Atheist hypocrisy]]
On August 6, 2014, three years after Elevatorgate, without mentioning Rebecca Watson's name, Richard Dawkins issued a one sentence apology for his Elevatorgate comments. He posted the apology near the bottom of one of his blog posts.<ref>[https://richarddawkins.net/2014/08/who-is-belittling-what/ Who is “belittling” what?] by Richard Dawkins</ref> In response, Rebecca Watson wrote in Twitter post: "Richard Dawkins did the blog-equivalent of coughing into his hand while mumbling "sorry" to me. Eh I'll take it."<ref>[https://twitter.com/rebeccawatson/status/497087309805027328 Rebecca Watson's Twitter post about Dawkins' apology]</ref>
On August 6, 2014, three years after Elevatorgate, without mentioning Rebecca Watson's name, Richard Dawkins issued a one sentence apology for his Elevatorgate comments. He posted the apology near the bottom of one of his blog posts.<ref>[https://richarddawkins.net/2014/08/who-is-belittling-what/ Who is “belittling” what?] by Richard Dawkins</ref> In response, Rebecca Watson wrote in Twitter post: "Richard Dawkins did the blog-equivalent of coughing into his hand while mumbling "sorry" to me. Eh I'll take it."<ref>[https://twitter.com/rebeccawatson/status/497087309805027328 Rebecca Watson's Twitter post about Dawkins' apology]</ref>
However, as noted below, on November 18, 2014, Richard Dawkins publicly declared that Rebecca Watson's elevator incident was "rather trivial" compared to some incidents Muslim women experience.<ref>[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/richard-dawkins-stands-by-remarks-on-sexism-pedophilia-down-syndrome/2014/11/18/a2915cd8-6f64-11e4-a2c2-478179fd0489_story.html Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014</ref> In addition, he complained about "thought police" muzzling his speech.<ref>[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/richard-dawkins-stands-by-remarks-on-sexism-pedophilia-down-syndrome/2014/11/18/a2915cd8-6f64-11e4-a2c2-478179fd0489_story.html Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014</ref>
However, as noted below, on November 18, 2014, Richard Dawkins publicly declared that Rebecca Watson's elevator incident was "rather trivial" compared to some incidents Muslim women experience.<ref>[https://archive.md/kk5nO Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014</ref> In addition, he complained about "thought police" muzzling his speech.<ref>[https://archive.md/kk5nO Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014</ref>
(see additional information below)
(see additional information below)
*[http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119596/appetite-wonder-review-closed-mind-richard-dawkins ''The Closed Mind of Richard Dawkins''], New Republic by John Gray
*[http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119596/appetite-wonder-review-closed-mind-richard-dawkins ''The Closed Mind of Richard Dawkins''], New Republic by John Gray
*[https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/405391218273554433 Jennifer McCreight on the Twitter about the Elevatorgate scandal]
*[https://twitter.com/jennifurret/status/405391218273554433 Jennifer McCreight on the Twitter about the Elevatorgate scandal]
*[http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/downs-syndrome-girl-passes-six-4095031 Down's Syndrome girl passes six GCSEs as dad calls Richard Dawkins 'an ignorant idiot'], Mirror by By Grace Macaskill, Aug 23, 2014 15:41
*[https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/downs-syndrome-girl-passes-six-4095031 Down's Syndrome girl passes six GCSEs as dad calls Richard Dawkins 'an ignorant idiot'], Mirror by By Grace Macaskill, Aug 23, 2014 15:41
*[http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/21/the-12-stages-of-a-richard-dawkins-twitter-scandal_n_5698443.html The 12-Stage 'Evolution' Of A Richard Dawkins Twitter Scandal] by Paul Vale, The Huffington Post UK, Posted: 22/08/2014 02:06 BST</ref>
*[http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/21/the-12-stages-of-a-richard-dawkins-twitter-scandal_n_5698443.html The 12-Stage 'Evolution' Of A Richard Dawkins Twitter Scandal] by Paul Vale, The Huffington Post UK, Posted: 22/08/2014 02:06 BST</ref>
== PZ Myers' prediction that the atheism movement will stagnate or shrink unless atheists change ==
== PZ Myers' prediction that the atheism movement will stagnate or shrink unless atheists change ==
[[File:PzMyers2.jpg|thumbnail|251px|right|[[PZ Myers]]
[[File:PzMyers2.jpg|thumbnail|251px|right|[[PZ Myers]] ]]
''See also:'' [[Atheist movement]] and [[Atheism and social/interpersonal intelligence|Atheism and social intelligence]] and [[Atheism and emotional/intrapersonal intelligence|Atheism and emotional intelligence]] and [[Atheism and morality]] and [[Atheism and charity|Atheism and uncharitableness]]
''See also:'' [[Atheist movement]] and [[Atheism and social/interpersonal intelligence|Atheism and social intelligence]] and [[Atheism and emotional/intrapersonal intelligence|Atheism and emotional intelligence]] and [[Atheism and morality]] and [[Atheism and charity|Atheism and uncharitableness]]
I don’t know that we can.<ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/09/27/the-atheist-disillusionment/ ''The Atheist Disillusionment''] - PZ Myers, September 27, 2014</ref>}}
I don’t know that we can.<ref>[http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/09/27/the-atheist-disillusionment/ ''The Atheist Disillusionment''] - PZ Myers, September 27, 2014</ref>}}
== Theodore Beale on the Elevatorgate controversy ==
See also: [[Essay: Atheism and gamma males]]
Theodore Beale wrote:
{{Cquote|I know, I know, it's simply astonishing news that women hate atheists. [https://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/07/03/oh-no-not-againonce-more-unto Even atheist women don't like them].
:[[Jen McCreight|Jen]] has slammed [[Richard Dawkins]] for some comments here. I can confirm that those comments were actually from Richard Dawkins. I also have to say that I agree with Jen and disagree with Richard. Richard did make the valid point that there are much more serious abuses of women's rights around the world, and the Islam is a particularly horrendous offender. Women have their genitals mutilated, are beaten by husbands without recourse to legal redress, are stoned to death for adultery, are denied basic privileges like the right to drive or travel unescorted. These are far more serious problems than most American women face.
:However, the existence of greater crimes does not excuse lesser crimes, and no one has even tried to equate this incident to any of the horrors above...
:The elevator incident demands…a personal rejection and a woman nicely suggesting to the atheist community that they avoid doing that. And that is what it got. That is all [[Rebecca Watson]] did. For those of you who are outraged at that, I ask: which part of her response fills you with fury? That a woman said no, or that a woman has asked men to be more sensitive?...
Look, it's hardly news that atheist guys are creepy [[Essay: Atheism and gamma males|gammas]], for the most part. That's why they are [[Atheism and marriage|much less likely to get married]] or [[Atheism and fertility rates|have children]]. Even the [[Atheism and women|small number of atheist girls]] don't like atheist guys; the ludicrous internecine kerfluffle was kicked off by a male atheist hitting on female atheist in an elevator...
Dawkins, who as a scientific celebrity surmounted his natural gamma status some time ago, was naturally confused by all this extravagant feminized foolishness, and pointed out how stupid it all was. This caused more hissy fits to be directed his way; Dawkins, being the coward that he has shown himself to be on numerous occasions, was naturally quick to crumble.
Now, I don't think it's absolutely necessary to be hapless with women to be an atheist... [[Atheism and hatred of God|No wonder they're so furious at God]]. He created all those lovely women with those beautiful breasts and they aren't even allowed to even talk to them in elevators.<ref>[https://voxday.net/2011/07/06/atheists-in-gamma-he/ Atheists in Gamma Hell]</ref>}}
== Thunderf00t on the impact of Freethought Blogs and Rebecca Watson ==
== Thunderf00t on the impact of Freethought Blogs and Rebecca Watson ==
''See also:'' [[Richard Dawkins quotes]]
''See also:'' [[Richard Dawkins quotes]]
On November 18, 2014, Richard Dawkins indicated that: he stands by his recent remarks about women/men relations, he feels muzzled by "thought police" and that [[Rebecca Watson]]'s experience in the elevator was "rather trivial" compared to events some Muslim women experience.<ref>[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/richard-dawkins-stands-by-remarks-on-sexism-pedophilia-down-syndrome/2014/11/18/a2915cd8-6f64-11e4-a2c2-478179fd0489_story.html Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014</ref>
On November 18, 2014, Richard Dawkins indicated that: he stands by his recent remarks about women/men relations, he feels muzzled by "thought police" and that [[Rebecca Watson]]'s experience in the elevator was "rather trivial" compared to events some Muslim women experience.<ref>[https://archive.md/kk5nO Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014</ref>
Specifically, the ''Washington Post'' reported on November 18, 2014:
Specifically, the ''Washington Post'' reported on November 18, 2014:
Dawkins, however, disagrees. He is, he said, not a misogynist, as some critics have called him, but “a passionate feminist.” The greatest threats to women, in his view, are Islamism and jihadism — and his concern over that sometimes leads him to speak off-the-cuff.
Dawkins, however, disagrees. He is, he said, not a misogynist, as some critics have called him, but “a passionate feminist.” The greatest threats to women, in his view, are Islamism and jihadism — and his concern over that sometimes leads him to speak off-the-cuff.
“I concentrate my attention on that menace and I confess I occasionally get a little impatient with American women who complain of being inappropriately touched by the water cooler or invited for coffee or something which I think is, by comparison, relatively trivial,” he said.<ref>[https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/richard-dawkins-stands-by-remarks-on-sexism-pedophilia-down-syndrome/2014/11/18/a2915cd8-6f64-11e4-a2c2-478179fd0489_story.html Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014 and syndicated to the ''Washington Post''</ref>}}
“I concentrate my attention on that menace and I confess I occasionally get a little impatient with American women who complain of being inappropriately touched by the water cooler or invited for coffee or something which I think is, by comparison, relatively trivial,” he said.<ref>[https://archive.md/kk5nO Richard Dawkins stands by remarks on sexism, pedophilia, Down syndrome], by Kimberly Winston | Religion News Service November 18, 2014 and syndicated to the ''Washington Post''</ref>}}
== Atheist community double standards: Muslim men misogyny vs. atheist men misogyny ==
== Atheist community double standards: Muslim men misogyny vs. atheist men misogyny ==
[[File:Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali.JPG|thumbnail|left|115px|[[Ayaan Hirsi Ali]] ]]
[[File:Ayaan-Hirsi-Ali.JPG|thumbnail|right|115px|[[Ayaan Hirsi Ali]] ]]
''See also:'' [[Atheist hypocrisy]]
''See also:'' [[Atheist hypocrisy]]
=== Commentary by PZ Myers ===
=== Commentary by PZ Myers ===
[[File:PZ Myers.jpg|thumbnail|220px|left|PZ Myers
[[File:PZ Myers.jpg|thumbnail|175px|left|PZ Myers ]]
PZ Myers wrote in 2013:
PZ Myers wrote in 2013:
{{cquote|Except…I was really surprised the first time a woman at a conference offered me her hotel key. I know I’m not personally attractive or otherwise appealing in any physical way, and it was simply that eroticism of intellectual stimulation, as you mentioned, and the impulse to indulge in a fleeting crush. You know speakers get a little edge from that position when I’m getting sexual opportunities!
{{cquote|Except…I was really surprised the first time a woman at a conference offered me her hotel key. I know I’m not personally attractive or otherwise appealing in any physical way, and it was simply that eroticism of intellectual stimulation, as you mentioned, and the impulse to indulge in a fleeting crush. You know speakers get a little edge from that position when I’m getting sexual opportunities!
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists] by Remy Stern, ''Gawker'', July 7, 2011
*[http://gawker.com/5818993/richard-dawkins-torn-limb-from-limbby-atheists Richard Dawkins Torn Limb From Limb—By Atheists] by Remy Stern, ''Gawker'', July 7, 2011
* [http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women?] - ''Salon'', July 8, 2011
* [https://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/07/08/atheist_flirting Richard Dawkins: Skeptic of women?] - ''Salon'', July 8, 2011
*[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jul/24/richard-dawkins-women-chilly-climate Richard Dawkins, check the evidence on the 'chilly climate' for women] by Emily Band, ''The Guardian'', July 24, 2011
*[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jul/24/richard-dawkins-women-chilly-climate Richard Dawkins, check the evidence on the 'chilly climate' for women] by Emily Band, ''The Guardian'', July 24, 2011
''See also:'' [[Atheist factions]] and [[Atheist movement]]
''See also:'' [[Atheist factions]] and [[Atheist movement]]
Jacques Rousseau wrote in the Daily Maverick concerning Elevatorgate, "Some might observe that we indulge in these squabbles fairly frequently."<ref>[http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2011-07-13-sticks-and-stones-may-break-my-bones-but-words-can-rip-my-soul Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can rip my soul]</ref> An ex-atheist wrote: "As an Atheist for 40 years, I noticed that there is not just a wide variety of Atheist positions, but there exists an actual battle between certain [[Atheist factions]].<ref>[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2013/04/internet-atheism-is-still-hostile.html The atheist community and internet atheism is still a hostile wasteland]</ref>
Jacques Rousseau wrote in the Daily Maverick concerning Elevatorgate, "Some might observe that we indulge in these squabbles fairly frequently."<ref>[http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2011-07-13-sticks-and-stones-may-break-my-bones-but-words-can-rip-my-soul Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can rip my soul]</ref> An ex-atheist wrote: "As an Atheist for 40 years, I noticed that there is not just a wide variety of Atheist positions, but there exists an actual battle between certain [[Atheist factions]].<ref>[http://www.truefreethinker.com/articles/atheist-new-world-order-rational-response-squad-making-attempt An atheist new world order? Is the Rational Response Squad making an attempt?]</ref>
The article ''Against “Mere Atheism”: Why We Need Schism In the Atheist Movement'' indicates:
The article ''Against “Mere Atheism”: Why We Need Schism In the Atheist Movement'' indicates:
The atheist PZ Myers said about the current rifts in the atheist movement: "So deep and wide we’ve separated into two continents."<ref>[https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2017/08/26/get-out-a-message-for-the-atheist-movement/ Get Out! A message for the atheist movement] by PZ Myers</ref>
The atheist PZ Myers said about the current rifts in the atheist movement: "So deep and wide we’ve separated into two continents."<ref>[https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2017/08/26/get-out-a-message-for-the-atheist-movement/ Get Out! A message for the atheist movement] by PZ Myers</ref>
On the [[Atheists for Liberty]] website the atheist Thomas Sheedy wrote in a 2021 article entitled ''Ten years after Elevatorgate | What we should learn from our past mistakes'':
{{Cquote|Over the past eight years, I have seen:
*Millions of dollars once belonging to world-renowned [[atheist organizations]] were lost.
*[[Atheist conferences|Conferences]], some once having numbers in the hundreds, if not thousands, dead.
*Some of the most horrific and superstitious belief systems defended in the name of [[woke]]ness
*Organizers of events facing real harassment because they dared to have “[[Political correctness|politically incorrect]]” speakers, speakers who were seen as ordinary, non-sexist, [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] types just a few years prior
*The movement’s professionalism fade away in the name of this infiltration
*Ex Muslims disregarded by movement organizers in the United States
*A friend’s life, once respected as a bold, national figure in the movement, is destroyed by false allegations lobbed against him. He nearly committed suicide.<ref>[https://www.atheistsforliberty.org/06/03/ten-years-after-elevatorgate-what-we-should-learn-from-our-past-mistakes/ Ten years after Elevatorgate | What we should learn from our past mistakes] by Thomas Sheedy, [[Atheist for Liberty]] website, June 3, 2021</ref>}}
== See also ==
== See also ==
== External links ==
== External links ==
*[https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2021/06/04/elevatorgate-still-smolders-in-the-minds-of-the-riff-raff/ Elevatorgate still smolders in the minds of the riff-raff] by [[PZ Myers]], 2021
*[https://www.atheistsforliberty.org/06/03/ten-years-after-elevatorgate-what-we-should-learn-from-our-past-mistakes/ Ten years after Elevatorgate | What we should learn from our past mistakes], Thomas Sheedy at [[Atheists for Liberty]] website, 2021
*[http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/elevatorgate Elevatorgate - Know your meme]
*[http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/elevatorgate Elevatorgate - Know your meme]
*[http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2011/07/why-we-have-to-talk-about-this.html Why We Have to Talk About This: Atheism, Sexism, and Blowing Up The Internet] by [[Greta Christina]]
*[http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2011/07/why-we-have-to-talk-about-this.html Why We Have to Talk About This: Atheism, Sexism, and Blowing Up The Internet] by [[Greta Christina]]