Difference between revisions of "Talk:Bird"

Revision as of 17:08, March 18, 2008

This article is a complete and utter disgrace.

Stand back from this, and ask yourselves what is going on here? If this really is to be used as a resource, i.e. an encyclopaedia, then someone looking up the word 'bird', is looking to find out about birds, and not wanting to get into a discussion of whether or not birds descended from dinosaurs or not. This should have a typology of birds, in to different types, species etc, as well as discussing anatomical details, breeding habits and all sorts of stuff like that. Right at the end, perhaps there could be stuff about bird origins, but taking up 95% of the article, come on! --Felix 17:27, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

So far, this article has focussed on the supposition by evolutionists that birds and dinosaurs are related. If you can add some facts about birds which have nothing to do with the origins debate, we'd all be happy. --Ed Poor 17:32, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

then all the debate stuff should be moved to a page called "Bird-Dinosaur Controversy" or some such. It should not constitute the major part of an article on birds.--Felix 17:42, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Why is the whole of the "Creationary view" section taken up with creationist critiques of the dinosaur-to-bird hypothesis rather than positive evidence for the "creationary" version of the origin of birds? Dadsnagem2 13:08, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm sorry, but...

This article states that the idea that birds evolved from dinosaurs is not supported by ANY scientific data. I'm sorry, but this is plain and simply not true. There is burgeoning evidence that birds evolved from dinosaurs, though there are some aspects of their physiology that would suggest that birds evolved from thecodonts, the amphibious ancestors of dinosaurs. This is not a matter of liberalism, or conservatism, but a matter of highest scientific truth. Please understand that it is completely detestable to cloud truth, science, and progress due to petty bipartisan bickering. I feel obligated as a budding ornithologist to largely re-write the section of this article concerning the evolution of birds. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BirdEgal202 (talk)

The article does not state that there is no scientific data. It says that creationists contend that there is no scientific data. Philip J. Rayment 22:16, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

Okay, go ahead and rewrite. Bear in mind that the intro says, "It is commonly believed that birds have evolved from dinosaurs, although this view is disputed by both creationists and some evolutionists." --Ed Poor ^Talk 16:41, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

Yes, but the evolutionists who dispute the evolution of birds from dinosaurs believe that they descended from thecodonts. And creationism isn't really science, it doesn't use the scientific method, it's difficult to back up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BirdEgal202 (talk)

Creationism is no less scientific than evolutionism. It uses the scientific method just as much, and is just as easy (or hard) to back up as evolution. It's better to refute an opposing view than simply dismiss it as not worthy of refutation.

However, regardless of that, thanks for your addition to the article, although I will be editing it partly to remove the evolutionary view presented as truth.

Philip J. Rayment 22:16, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

That's just the thing. Everything I've written is true. I've presented cursorial theory as it is, a theory, and factual evidence that backs it up. For example, —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BirdEgal202 (talk)

Didn't finish writing that?

Yes, for the most part, you did present it as a theory. Most of my changes to your addition were simply for better wording. The one bit that I did delete outright, "Vertebrates consistently illustrate throughout their history that adaptive behavior probably evolves before anatomy in adapting to new niches and habitats.", was written as a fact yet presupposes the accuracy of the radiometric dating methods involved, which presupposes the naturalistic worldview.

Philip J. Rayment 23:00, 30 August 2007 (EDT)