Debate:Is Obama a Muslim?

See Also

• Debate: What is sufficient proof that Obama is a Muslim?

Arguments that Obama is a Muslim

The following list of claims was originally from the Barack Obama page, but additional claims may be added.

(guidelines: a "CLAIM" argues for the premise, a "RESPONSE" argues against; use "COUNTER" to argue against a RESPONSE, i.e. favoring the premise.)

• CLAIM: Obama's background, education, and outlook are Muslim, and fewer than 1% of Muslims convert to Christianity.
  • RESPONSE: This is actually two claims:
    • CLAIM: Obama's background, education, and outlook are Muslim.
      • RESPONSE: Based on what evidence? There is a rumor that he was educated in a Madrassa in Indonesia, but this is patently false; Obama did attend a local public school (not a madrassa) in Jakarta between the ages of 6 and 8, where he received some Muslim education as is standard in the Indonesian public school system; after that he was enrolled in a Roman Catholic school. He did not appear to take his religious studies seriously in either school, according to his own accounts (and possibly witnesses).
    • CLAIM: Fewer than 1% of Muslims convert to Christianity.
      • RESPONSE: Possibly true, but this is only relevant if Obama was at some point a Muslim. He was never a Muslim.
        • COUNTER: Never was a Muslim, hmmmmmm. If his father was a Muslim, that would make Obama a Muslim at birth.
          • RESPONSE: This depends on several things: (1) whose laws you recognize (Muslim? Christian? US?); (2) even if you choose to favor Islam's laws over the others, there is some vagueness which requires further research. (3) If he's claimed as a Muslim by the Muslims (or some group of them), would this prevent him from also being a Christian, as he clearly has shown far more interest and activity within that faith than within Islam?
      • RESPONSE: his father was an ex-muslim atheist. We have no proof to counter that. Obama was never a Muslim.
        • COUNTER: no proof exists that Senoir was an Atheist.
          • RESPONSE: His family says he was. They are more authoritative than anything except proof as to someone's personal beliefs.
• CLAIM: Obama's middle name (Hussein) references Husayn, who was the grandson of Muhammad, which most Christians would not retain.
  • RESPONSE 1: Most Christians also wouldn't run for president of the United States; does this prove that Obama also didn't do that?
  • RESPONSE 2: What evidence do you have that most Christians would not retain the middle name they were given at birth just because it references a mythological figure from another religion?
  • RESPONSE 3: Even if most Christians would decide to change their birth name as you claim, how does this prove that Obama is not a Christian because he did not? "Most" is not "all". Are you implying that any Christian who would not do such a thing isn't a "real Christian"?
• CLAIM: Obama recently referred to his "Muslim faith."
  • RESPONSE: The description for the YouTube video linked to as support for that claim says " It is as clear as day that he's putting sarcastic quotes around "my Muslim faith" since the entire question is about his (actual) Christian faith."
• CLAIM: Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset," and recited "with a first-class [Arabic] accent" the opening lines: "Allah is Supreme! ... I witness that there is no god but Allah ...."
  • RESPONSE 1: How does this prove he's a Muslim? Probably many professors of Islamic studies would also be able to do these things, but that doesn't make them all Muslims. What it makes them (and Obama) is educated (and possibly gifted in the area of language) -- both excellent qualities in a world leader.
  • RESPONSE 2: The only source for this allegation is apparently NYT columnist Nicholas Kristof (NYT, 2007-03-06, "Obama: Man of the World"), who (as I understand it) is generally rather positive about Obama. Perhaps this is being taken out of context?
• CLAIM: Obama stated that the autobiography of Malcolm X, a Nation of Islam leader who became a Muslim, inspired him in his youth.
  • RESPONSE 1: Many black people were influenced by Malcolm X. You'll have to show a high degree of correlation between "being influenced by Malcom X" and "converting to Islam while denying it publicly".
  • RESPONSE 2: "Nation of Islam" is not part of the Islamic religion but was founded in the US, presumably based loosely on Islamic ideals. Do you have any evidence that Obama is a NoI member? Wouldn't NoI be very interested in publicizing Obama's membership if he had joined, as a way of promoting themselves?
• CLAIM: Obama raised nearly $1 million and campaigned for a Kenyan presidential candidate who had a written agreement with Muslim leaders promising to convert Kenya to an Islamic state that bans Christianity.
  • RESPONSE 1: Where is the evidence that Obama campaigned for Odinga?
  • RESPONSE 2: While this might demonstrate that Obama was friendly to Islam, this does not prove that he is Muslim. The Eisenhower administration arranged a coup-d'etat in Iran in 1952, replacing the democratically-elected president with a monarchy. Does that make Eisenhower an anti-democratic royalist? Donald Rumsfeld shook hands with Saddam Hussein; does that make him a Muslim terrorist?
• CLAIM: Obama's claims of conversion to Christianity arose after he became politically ambitious, lacking a date of conversion or baptism.
  • RESPONSE: Has anyone bothered to ask his church (or his office) to see if they have a record of this?
• CLAIM: On the campaign trail Obama has been reading "The Post-American World" by Fareed Zakaria, which is written from a Muslim point-of-view.
  • CLAIM: So... everyone who reads that book is a Muslim?
• CLAIM: Contrary to Christianity, the Islamic doctrine of taqiyya encourages adherents to deny they are Muslim if it advances the cause of Islam.
  • RESPONSE: Ah-HA! So every time he denies he's a Muslim, that PROVES he really IS! ...Hey, maybe you're a Muslim too! Go on, prove me wrong.
• CLAIM Obama uses the Muslim Pakistani pronunciation for "Pakistan" rather than the common American one.
  • RESPONSE: Right, and I bet he uses "C.E." instead of "A.D." in his dates, and maybe even the Metric System. He also pronounces "divisive" with a short "i" in the second syllable. What in the world does this have to do with anything?
    • COUNTER: If educated, you pronounce what you have learned. Where did he learn the Muslim use of Pokistan? Occidental teach this? University of Chicago teach this? Does Harvard teach this? Only a Muslim knows the proper way to pronounce so he was taught by Muslims.
      • • ANOTHER RESPONSE: "Only a Muslim knows the proper way to pronounce so he was taught by Muslims." - and yet you clearly are claiming to know the muslim way to pronounce it (otherwise you would not know whether or not his pronunciation is the correct muslim form) by your own logic therefore, YOU are a muslim.
      • RESPONSE 1 fallacious argument. This still does not demonstrate any evidence for Muslimhood. For one thing, many non-muslims pronounce Pakistan this way (and probably many Muslims give it the more American pronunciation).
      • RESPONSE 2: I don't know, but the obvious answer would be in the Indonesian public school he attended early in life. There are certainly many places a well-educated person might pick up an odd (or perhaps more correct) pronunciation.
• CLAIM: Many of Obama's statements about religion conflict with Christianity, leading one group to demonstrate with a 7-part video series, "Why Barack Obama is Not a Christian."
  • RESPONSE: Christianity has a wide range of views on a lot of different subjects, and any one person's views are bound to be "un-Christian" by someone's lights. When I have time, I will review the linked videos and respond in more detail. (Reason #1, Reason #2, Reason #3)
• CLAIM: Obama was thoroughly exposed to Christianity as an adult in Chicago prior to attending law school, yet no one at law school saw him display any interest in converting. Obama unabashedly explained how he became "churched" in a 2007 speech: "It's around that time [while working as an organizer for the Developing Communities Project (DCP) of the Calumet Community Religious Conference (CCRC) in Chicago] that some pastors I was working with came around and asked if I was a member of a church. 'If you're organizing churches,' they said, 'it might be helpful if you went to a church once in a while.' And I thought, 'I guess that makes sense.'"
  • RESPONSE: Perhaps he is simply not very enthusiastic about Christianity. Many people who aren't Muslims feel the same way.
• CLAIM: Obama is mentioned as helping to organize the 1995 million man march led by black Muslim leader Louis Farrakhan from the Nation of Islam.
  • RESPONSE: ...and therefore...? (This is basically the Malcolm X argument in a weaker form.)
    • COUNTER (I think): if Obama organized a rally for Hitler, then we can clearly say he was a Nazi supporter. But Obama organized a rally for Jew bigot Farrakhan, he can't possibly be a Muslim supporter. (yeah right)
      • RESPONSE That's not proof, and only circumstantial evidence, that he was NOI. And aside from the NOI is not Islam.
        • COUNTER The correlation is more than justified. What cause did Obama support? a Muslim cause.
          • RESPONSE 1: Read up on the million man march. It wasn't a Muslim cause.
          • RESPONSE 2: Since when does supporting "a Muslim cause" automatically make one a Muslim?
          • RESPONSE 3: What do you mean by "a Muslim cause"? Muslims favor male dominance in marriage and firm suppression of homosexuality -- does that mean Conservapedia is Muslim, just because Conservapedia also supports these causes?

This is a rubbish way to pursue a debate. I can see why the original arguments were laid out like this, but adding more & more unsigned comments to the middle of this is just making a mess. Much better to put any new suggestions or criticisms below. Just offering my opinion. Sideways 13:04, 13 November 2008 (EST)

While I agree, do you think it will actually make a difference? They're not going to change the Obama article unless Obama gets denounced by every mosque from here to mecca, and even then they'd probably just call it deceit. EternalCritic 13:21, 13 November 2008 (EST)