221
edits
Changes
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
Line 764:
Line 764: + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Talk:Counterexamples to Relativity (view source)
Revision as of 12:41, August 16, 2010
, 12:41, August 16, 2010→Reversion of my edit
:::::::: Beats me, I thought GPS was a classified military project. Who did the Newtonian calculations? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 03:36, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
:::::::: Beats me, I thought GPS was a classified military project. Who did the Newtonian calculations? [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 03:36, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::''I pointed out that no individual has ever been credited, identified or even alluded to for providing the Relativity work that was supposedly included in the GPS design.'' R. Schlafly answered this one very well. May I add that we don't know who actually calculated the trajectories for the [[Apollo project]]. Does this mean that the [[Moon landing]] was a hoax? That's absurd.
::::::::::''If some but not all relativistic corrections are used, as discussed above, then this disproves rather than proves Relativity.'' Again, does the omission of the [[Coriolis effect]]s - or even tidal forces - when calculating the trajectory of a bullet disprove [[classical mechanics]]? Effects come in various degrees, more about that in the next section.
::::::::::''Ron, your edits are mostly talk, and the talk is superficial. '' I wouldn't have to do so much talking if you actually read the papers you are quoting from. Even someone who thinks that he can formulate [[Einstein's postulates]] better than Wolfgang Pauli did (''[[Talk:World_History_Lecture_Eleven#Postulates_of_Special_Relativity|I have explained why Pauli's description is inadequate]]'') should sometimes stop and listen to those who at least recomputed the relevant calculations.
::::::::::[[User:RonLar|RonLar]] 08:41, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
== Quote mine ==
Andy, you take the sentence ''The Time Service Department, U.S. Navy, observed that "the Global Positioning System (GPS) does not include the rigorous transformations between coordinate systems that Einstein’s general theory of relativity would seem to require" in part because "the effects of relativity, where they are different from the effects predicted by classical mechanics and electromagnetic theory, are too small to matter – less than one centimeter, for users on or near the earth.”'' as a corroboration of you statement ''Contrary to the claims of Relativists, the GPS system has never been based on Relativity.''
Even if the sentence stood alone, that would be hardly justifiable: ''the effect of relativity [...] are too small to matter [...] '''for users on or near the earth''' '' shows what the authors intention is: they show that the effects of relativity for users in a distance from the Earth's surface (satellites etc.) and at high speed do matter.
If you read the article the sentence is taken from (''GPS and Relativity: An Engineering Overview'' by Henry F. Fliegel and Raymond S. DiEsposti), you'll find on p. 193:
::''Since GPs receivers work in the time and not in the frequency domain, they handle the velocity, gravity, and acceleration shifts differently than described above. First, each GPS space vehicle (SV) clock is offset from its nominal rate by about -4.45×10<sup>-10</sup> (= -38 microseconds per day) to allow for the relativistic offsets between the differences between the SV and the ground. Of this -38 microseconds per day, about -45 are due to the gravitational potential difference between the SV at its mean distance and the earth's surface, and +7 to the mean SV speed, which is about 3.87 km/sec.''
So, the authors of this text are well aware of the relativistic effects on the GPS space vehicles. And these effects are big enough to justify a compensation. So what are the ''effects of relativity, where they are different from the effects predicted by classical mechanics and electromagnetic theory, are too small to matter''? To repeat it again, these are the additional effects on the receivers of the signal, which may be in higher altitude and moving on a higher speed than it was anticipated in the 1970s.
Including such effects make the GPS more precise, it doesn't disprove the theory of relativity.
You could have guessed as much from the abstract of the article:
::''We give and explain in detail the formulas for the relativistic corrections to be implemented in high-speed aircraft, or when using other satellites in connection with GPS, or when using GPS from another satellite. We explain how to use these formulas in various scenarios, give numerical examples, and itemize the pitfall to be avoided by (for example) receiver manufacturers.
It's an amusing twist that the intended audience for this articles are engineers - people who have no need for the theory of relativity as you have repeatedly made clear.
So, the sentence you took of the article only ''seemingly'' bolstered your position, in fact, when read in context, it ''disproves'' your opinion. That is an example for a [[quote mine]].
I hope that this comment - and my previous ones - which are not superficial at all, but go straight to the source, convince you to unblock my ISP at home (block ID #63109, intended blockee: 109.90.0.0/16). and to give me the possibility to engage in a meaningful discussion.
[[User:RonLar|RonLar]] 08:41, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
==My Great-grandfather==
==My Great-grandfather==