Difference between revisions of "Talk:Facebook"

Revision as of 20:05, December 21, 2011

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-Has anyone ever thought to create a Conservapedia Facebook account? [[User:JY23|JY23]] 20:57, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
+[[talk:facebook/archive1|archive 1]]
-== Concerns ==
-Wouldn't it be appropriate to mention that the privacy controls on Facebook are much better than on other networking sites? The article as it stands makes it sound like anyone's personal information will be available for everyone on the internet to see (as with MySpace), but in truth under the default privacy settings it would only be viewable by people in the same university or network, and privacy levels for every item can be customized. The Bob Jones article about employers using Facebook to research applicants does not seem to take this into consideration either, which makes me question its reliability as a source. The article is completely devoid of details (which employers are doing it), and seems not to notice that it would be mostly impossible for an employer to do this on Facebook.<br />
-I'm giving this one 48 hours for debate, and will trim the "concerns" section accordingly if no one objects. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 17:49, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
-::Done. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 16:50, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
-:::Okay, but that's like saying using a condom while being promiscuous is less risky than not using one. It's still risky (among other things).
-:::If there's a social networking website with less risk (and higher morals), let's identify and promote it. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 15:20, 5 August 2009 (EDT)
-See Main Page news item I just placed.  The Marine Corps has identified all major social networking sites as too vulnerable to malware and other malicious problems, and blocked them from its entire network..... --[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]<sub><small><small>/Admin</small></small></sub><sup>[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]</sup> 15:25, 5 August 2009 (EDT)
-===Privacy===
-The Privacy Issues section only has ''one'' source, and that AllExperts page looks out of date... For example, it says only people with a valid school-email address (or from certain other organizations) may sign up, not true anymore... Also un-sourced: "Facebook refuses to admit that its privacy settings that apparently allow only "friends" to see certain information are completely bogus and can easily be cracked by people with little to no hacking experience. Instead, Facebook actually encourages young users to only allow "friends" to see certain information, rather than just warning them that what they post can be seen by the world and to not post what they wouldn't want people to see."
-== Liberal? ==
-This website seems to be vehemently opposed to facebook, claiming it is liberal. Is allowing people to have their relationship status with another of the same sex really enough to make the website "liberal"? Also the page mentions that the site leads to divorce. What does that have to do with liberalism? If the site really does lead to divorce it is only because people can see what their spouses are doing when they think no one is looking, something that has nothing to do with facebook's policies but rather infidelity in and of itself. This is probably the most bizzare article on conservapedia.--[[User:Jasonb242|Jasonb242]] 19:18, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-:By almost any measure, Facebook is a [[liberal]] company/project.  Take your pick:  whom Facebook hires (former Clinton Press Secretary Joe Lockhart), to whom Facebook caters (Obama), the impact of Facebook on relationships, to which candidates Facebook employees contribute, how Facebook is run, the effect of Facebook on productivity, etc.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:13, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-:: I was with you, Asch, until you got into things that can't be backed with fact. I see a lot of potential in Facebook. It can be used to bring people of similar thinking together, though not in the strictly political idea as with FreedomConnecter. I am part of a LOT of conservative groups in Facebook and my productivity is not suffering in the least by me being part of it. If someone suffers from the inability to pull themselves away from the program, that is the fault of the individual, not the whole.
-:: blaming the whole for the fault of an individual is a very liberal way of thinking, Andy. Just an FYI. [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-:::I don't doubt that some people can use facebook productively and not waste time on it, just as there are conservative people and groups. But on the whole, FB is exactly as it's described in the article. I realize this comparison is out of proportion, but it's analogous to drug use - some may be able to use drugs without ruining their lives, but that doesn't change the fact that drugs in general are very destructive. I suggest adding some information to the article about the more reasonable uses of FB, and perhaps examples of conservative political groups; then the article would show that, as you say, there's a minority on FB who aren't unproductive liberals, without denying the general nature of the site. [[User:Jcw|Jcw]] 18:21, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-:::: My point still remains, don't blame the group for the fault of the individual. [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-:::::A.Sch, regardless of the views of their employees, facebook not a partisan group. Obama may take advantage of the site, but so do Sarah Palin and many other conservative groups. And what does facebook's "impact on relationships" or "effect on productivity" have to do with liberalism?--[[User:Jasonb242|Jasonb242]] 19:18, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::The structure of a forum can have inherent political biases.  That's already been seen on Wikipedia, for example.  Facebook is another example.  When something is inherently gossipy, self-centered and unproductive, it's going to be more [[liberal]] than [[conservative]] in result.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:59, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::: Don't blame the whole for the faults of the individual. If people gossip, are self-centered or unproductive then it is their faults, not the fault of the tool that can be used to do so. All forms of communication can be used to exhibit those traits.
-::::::::A.Sch, ignoring the fact that ''you'' run a website with an inherent political bias, your entire argument is based on a logical fallacy. "Begging the question" to be more specific. You are arguing on the ''assumption'' that A) Facebook is unproductive; and B) that unproductiveness leads to liberalism, neither of which do you provide proof. --[[User:Jasonb242|Jasonb242]] 23:03, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-:::::::: (edit conflict) "All men are created equal," but not all systems of government, not all constitutions, not all schools, not all websites and not all encyclopedias.  Different rules have different biases.  The National Enquirer is not equal to the Christian Science Monitor.  Facebook is more like the National Enquirer.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:12, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-:::::::::"''The National Enquirer is not equal to the Christian Science Monitor.  Facebook is more like the National Enquirer''" And why is that? (and what does that have to do with anything?) You have yet to provide any proof or evidence to any of your assertions, further suggesting that your argument is based on the logical fallacy "begging the question"--[[User:Jasonb242|Jasonb242]] 23:18, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-I too want to register a complaint about the nature of this article which lambasts a company for what it perceives as "liberal" and dangerous tendencies but fails to acknowledges that Facebook is a private company that generates revenue through legitimate and legal means like all other businesses which operate in the United States. An affront on Facebook is an affront on all websites who make their money through advertising which is just about all of them. Secondly, there are valid issues about privacy but this article never considers fact that users are not compelled by anyone to use Facebook and all information entered is voluntarily given up. What happened to "let the buyer beware"? Is that not a tenet of conservative thought? <br>
-Facebook represents an online presence for individuals and I hardly believe that makes the company liberal by definition. It seems that the issues raised by the authors of this article are on the amount and types of expression that are capable on the site which can be defined as liberal. Don't forget that Facebook allows people to do what they have been doing for decades (sharing photographs, sending messages, inviting people to events and allowing for RSVPS, etc). My suggestion, rewrite the article to make the claim that Facebook is a privately owned company that allows  for social networking purposes. In subsequent sections go crazy on the the liberal threats Facebook poses to society. --[[User:Churchofthetrail|Church of the Trail]] 23:36, 15 June 2011 (EDT)
-:Hear Hear!
-::Is the article protected for admins only? If not, happy trails! Go ahead and point out how the private company allows users to voluntarily post their information.
-::On the other hand, Facebook does have problems. If we've overemphasized them, then deemphasize them or better yet provide some balance. Less complaining, more writing!
-::Here, I'll even help. My own church has trouble finding people who are adept at making websites. So they prefer to use Facebook to publicize church events. Assuming (as I do) that my church has good goals, this is a good aspect of Facebook! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 18:44, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-:: (edit conflict) [[Facebook]] encourages people to waste time with [[gossip]] and other self-centered, mindless activity.  It destroys marriages, and displaces healthy social gatherings.  Facebook lowers academic achievement.  No one is doubting Facebook's "right" to waste people's time and disrupt marriages, but surely there is full [[free speech]] to criticize it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:58, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-::: This is gonna be the first time I say this to anyone besides an Evolutionist or a Liberal but Aschlafly.. PROVE IT! [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-:::: (edit conflict) Which do you doubt, and have you looked for studies on the issue yet?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:24, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::: Heh, conservative beat me to it. v  If those stats are true, then TV is more of a Liberal tool than Facebook for pulling away from productivity than Facebook. And you have yet to supply your statements with facts so I question if you sir are just trying to stir up a baseless issue. Is that a red herring or a strawman? [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-:::::: And you undo my attempt to make the page more like an encyclopedia and STILL don't back up anything you say with fact! This is becoming the Conservative version of Wikipedia and that isn't a good thing. We are supposed to be better than this. [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-:::::::"''No one is doubting Facebook's "right" to waste people's time and disrupt marriages, but surely there is full [[free speech]] to criticize it''"....Again. Begging the question. Whether or not Facebook is a waste of time is an opinion matter. What i want to know is why you use these qualities as evidence of some kind of liberal agenda. And the thing about disrupting marriages, like i said before, the only effect facebook can have is ''exposing'' infidelity. The problem lies with cheating itself, and not with facebook. And seriously, even if facebook was out to break up every marriage, what does that have to do with liberalism? This sub-topic is about facebook's supposed liberal agenda. You have posted some (unfounded) reasons for disliking the site, but you have not shown any correlation to liberalism--[[User:Jasonb242|Jasonb242]] 13:40, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::::I think there's plenty there to link FB to liberalism - the founder is a liberal, his staff is overwhelmingly liberal, the site exemplifies liberal values and the population of the site is heavily (although not entirely) liberally biased. All of that is well documented; is that not enough to say that FB is liberal? [[User:Jcw|Jcw]] 18:05, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::::: So you have the staff roster, Jcw? You have it were they checked off 'Liberal' in their application? You have their business plan that says 'Lets do things that are more Liberal!' in big bold letters? Do you have any proof to back up what you are saying? If you do, I would love to see it.
-::::::::::No sooner said than done: [http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/all_summary.php?id=D000033563&nid=0 facebook staff campaign contributions.] [[User:Jcw|Jcw]] 19:47, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-== Facebook's harmful effects  ==
-Facebook problems seem to be a small societal issue. I cite: "Back in June 2009, Nielsen estimated that the average U.S. user spent four hours and 39 minutes on Facebook per month. That’s about 9.3 minutes per day in a 30-day month. In August, that number rose to five hours and 46 minutes, or 11.5 minutes per day."[http://mashable.com/2010/02/16/facebook-nielsen-stats/]
-Here is the June 2011 stats for TV watching and it seems people watch far more TV:
-"Nielsen polled about 2,600 people who said they watched videos online in the first three months of the year, and divided them into fifths based on how much they watch. The fifth that watched the most video online consumed nearly 19 minutes a day, and also watched the least amount of television, at about four hours and 32 minutes a day. The fifth that watched the least online video _ at less than a tenth of a minute a day _ watched the most TV at 4 hours and 50 minutes.
-Nielsen said such a finding doesn't indicate that people are about to drop their pay TV packages to watch video only online, a notion known as "cord cutting." About 91 percent of TV households still paid for a TV subscription in the first quarter, and most of the changes had to do with people switching between cable, telephone and satellite companies.
-Overall, TV viewing crept up by 0.2 percent from a year ago to 158 hours and 47 minutes a month, while video watching on the Internet jumped 35 percent to 4 hours and 33 minutes per month. Watching on mobile devices such as smartphones rose 20 percent to 4 hours and 20 minutes a month."[http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jun/15/us-nielsen-online-viewing/] [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 19:23, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-:Interesting data, but they omit demographic differences and fail to address effects like destroying marriages and lowering academic performance.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:00, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::It would make sense that the data above referring to the heavier users of Facebook would probably apply to the younger demographic. Those heavier users of Facebook still watched a lot more television as a whole. Next, this Brazilian study indicates that television watching has a significant effect on divorce rates.[http://idbdocs.iadb.org/wsdocs/getdocument.aspx?docnum=1856109] Television also affects sexual behavior and levels of violence in a negative way. [http://www.parentstv.org/ptc/facts/mediafacts.asp] Since most people, which probably includes the younger demographic, watch far more television, it would make sense that television causes more harm  to society than any negative effects caused by Facebook. [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 00:19, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::In addition, television tends to lower academic success.[http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7626-watching-tv-harms-kids-academic-success.html] [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 00:22, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-:::::::I have decided to retire permanently from the discussion about Facebook. I hope the information I provided was useful. [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 02:30, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-== Reversion explained ==
-We don't delete factual information here, or downplay it by placing it later in an entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:56, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-: If you have facts, then put it on the page. I just see unfounded statements. Citation please, specifically for these:
-* Other studies done have shown that the use of Facebook is associated with poorer performance in school. Facebook use is also associated with a substantial percentage of marital problems. The site is heavily promoted by liberals, presumably because it is so unproductive or even counterproductive.
-* Anybody with an account can create an unlimited amount of unproductive pages, which can then be "liked" by other users. (The 'Unproductive' part)
-:And how is this statement 'fact'? "Users can waste their time on it in a variety of ways: by uploading pictures (typically of themselves), by gossiping about others, by interfering with marriages and personal relationships, and by acting like a busybody."
-: Looks to me like an option. [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-::What do you seriously dispute about those statements?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:01, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-::: Everything. How do you know that Facebook is the single cause of any negative or positive effect? How do you know that Facebook can only be unproductive? What definition of 'productive' are you using? How do you know people are wasting time on it? How is uploading pictures unproductive? How do you know that everyone is gossiping? How do you know everyone is interfering with marriages and personal relationships and being a busybody?
-::: I use Facebook, and I don't do any of those things. No one I know does those things. You have not, nay cannot find anything to back your claims that is solid because there are none. You are using this page to attack Facebook because YOU don't like it. I thought Conservapedia was above such actions. Am I wrong, sir?
-:::: It took me less than 60 seconds to find a study documenting the correlation between Facebook and lower academic performance ... as well students' unpersuasive denials of such an effect. [http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/facebookusers.htm] --[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:30, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::: Maybe you should have taken another 60 to read it. I quote; "We can’t say that use of Facebook leads to lower grades and less studying – but we did find a relationship there,” said Aryn Karpinski, co-author of the study and a doctoral student in education at Ohio State University." You have not found a study that links Facebook as the single force in reducing academic performance. I continue.
-::::: "While this was a relatively small, exploratory study, it is one of the first to find a relationship between college students’ use of Facebook and their academic achievement." That tells me one of two things. Ether this is the first study done on this meaning that the information has not been proven repeatedly. Or this is the first of many studies that supports the claim, giving the impression that the case might be isolated.
-::::: "Typically, Facebook users in the study had GPAs between 3.0 and 3.5, while non-users had GPAs between 3.5 and 4.0. In addition, users said they averaged one to five hours a week studying, while non-users studied 11 to 15 hours per week." One point? That's it? Big whoop. Its the difference between an A and a B, just be glad they got in college. And does 11 to 15 hours of studding really grant 1 point of GPA to every student? It would make me burn out and I might flunk out.
-::::: "Students who spent more time working at paid jobs were less likely to use Facebook, while students who were more involved in extracurricular activities at school were more likely to use Facebook." Giving the impression that Facebook is something that is used to fill in free time confirming what Conservative said above
-::::: "Science, technology, engineering, math (STEM) and business majors were more likely to use Facebook than were students majoring in the humanities and social sciences." Giving the impression that the more likely majors are ones that promote personal connections and the exchange of ideas while the less likely ones are not doing so or already have more physical connections though school clubs. Also; “Other research had indicated that STEM majors spend more time on the Internet than do other students, so that may be one reason why they are more likely to use Facebook,” Karpinski said.
-::::: "Karpinski emphasized that the results don’t necessarily mean that Facebook use leads to lower grades. “There may be other factors involved, such as personality traits, that link Facebook use and lower grades,” she said. Don't blame the tool for the failures of the individual! People who use Facebook and have lower grades might already have a personality trait that makes them more keen to spend time on things that are fun than on things that aren't fun to them. We can do this study on ANYTHING and find almost similar results. (I say almost because people who do activities that are educational and that they enjoy might not be effected) And my statement is backed up by this; “It may be that if it wasn’t for Facebook, some students would still find other ways to avoid studying, and would still get lower grades.  But perhaps the lower GPAs could actually be because students are spending too much time socializing online.” that was Karpinski, the one who did the study.
-::::: Once again, you have not proven anything you have put on the page to be solid truth. [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-:::: Not to weigh in on either side of this discussion, but it is important to remember when reading any type of study or research article that a '''correlation does not imply causality''' - this is a basic statistical principle that helps us to avoid erroneous conclusions based on coincidence. MHarris is correct to ask whether or not a factor being correlated to a negative or positive effect is actually responsible for this effect. To answer this question, the study must perform some kind of experimentation, set up their own system that can be perturbed to determine if the effect being measured is actually impacted by the factor of interest.--[[User:Mike127|Mike127]] 23:58, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::But not in the way MHarris has asked - or rather, ''demanded'' - for proof.  It's one thing to ask, and then sit back and merely wait for a response, but another to badger to the point of antagonism.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 00:02, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::: Sorry, I tend to get a bit.. heated about things like this. But my point, I believe, is still valid.
-::::::::Yes, you do have a valid point, but it's best to ask, and ask just once.  If possible, it could take you a few clicks of the mouse to find a valid reference either proving or disproving the Facebook/liberal theory.  But here's a fact that ASchlafly did prove: you spend time away from your homework to do other things, your grades will go down, and it doesn't matter if the other thing is Facebook.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 00:12, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-::::::::: Aschlafly wasn't trying to prove that, sir. He was trying to prove that Facebook specifically was lowering grades. I am trying to refute that people who let themselves be pulled away from homework is at fault, not anything that the people do. [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-== Facebook use is also associated with a substantial percentage of marital problems ==
-I talked about this at [[Talk:Social_media#Citations]]... [[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 09:59, 17 June 2011 (EDT)
-:Should I point out here or there that the first pool was about what the lawyers did, not what the people in the relationship said or did nor does it raise up if the lawyers actually found anything substantial when they researched the person's Facebook? Or what about the second link that didn't actually talk about any research, but just what a few divorce firms have found on not only Facebook, but Second Life and another social networking site? [[User:MHarris|MHarris]]
-::[[User:Jpatt]]'s source relies on the discredited articles mentioned at [[Talk:Social_media#Citations]] and anecdotes. Therefore I remove it. [[User:AugustO|AugustO]] 11:24, 17 June 2011 (EDT)

Difference between revisions of "Talk:Facebook"

Revision as of 20:05, December 21, 2011

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