Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay:Greatest Conservative Sports Stars"

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(Sir John Major - new section)
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Mr Schlafly: this is such a great insight. I'm really impressed by some of the powerful conservative thinking on CP. Do you think most sports players are conservative because being successful at sport means being competitive? i.e trying to do your best instead of being a liberal wuss and complaining about other people doing well. Is it OK to add conservatives in UK sports like rugby, cricket and football? [[User:HollyS|HollyS]] 17:26, 26 November 2011 (EST)
 
  
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:Competitive sports is a [[meritocracy]], which is a [[conservative]] value.  Liberals prefer to "spread the wealth," which in sports would mean leveling the wins and losses.
 
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:Please do add legitimate examples from around the world.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:29, 26 November 2011 (EST)
 
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::I agree this is a fascinating page; enough so that I joined to help edit! Many athletes praise God in postgame interviews, etc., across all sports. I wonder if there's a way to work that into this page? [[User:LeRoyB|LeRoyB]] 17:18, 28 November 2011 (EST)
 
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== Football ==
 
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Hi Andy, For Gavin Peacock, you changed "football" to "soccer" but you've left the sport beside some other people's names (Tim Tebow and Kurt Warner - sorry, I've never heard of them) as plain "football". Does that mean American football? (like rugby league with padding). Shouldn't we change "football" for those guys to "American football" so as not to confuse people outside the USA? Otherwise, this is a great page - and I don't see any nit-picky socialists whining about any of their guys being top sports(wo)men! [[User:HollyS|HollyS]] 18:07, 28 November 2011 (EST)
 
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: I disagree.  It is pretty obvious that football is American football.  What the Europeans call football is really called "Association football" or "soccer" for short. [[User:JamieM|JamieM]] 20:36, 28 November 2011 (EST)
 
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:: It's not obvious to people outside the USA. And I think you'll find that football was invented in England. (Except I expect archaeologists will find it came from France, like cricket...)[[User:HollyS|HollyS]] 16:36, 29 November 2011 (EST)
 
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:::I am for getting rid of the non-American stars. At a minimum, a separate section. Plus, we do need to some conservative women on this page. Who follows women's sports in the Olympics, WNBA, NCAA Basketball, Fast Pitch Softball?--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 23:25, 29 November 2011 (EST)
 
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::::I would expect that the American flag on the Conservapedia logo should give plenty of evidence that this is an American site. Anyone used to visiting sites outside their home country should be aware that "football" means different things in different countries (there's Australian, Canadian, and Gaelic - association football is by no means the only "football" outside the U.S.) and that in the USA it means American football. [[User:KingHanksley|KingHanksley]] 16:50, 11 March 2012 (EDT)
 
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== Track and Field ==
 
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Would Al Oerter qualify?  He was the greatest discus thrower ever, one of only two athletes to win their event at four conservative Olympics.  He was critical of the "drug culture" that had overtaken sports when he finally retired (at an age much older than when most athletes retire).  He criticized steroid use.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:21, 30 November 2011 (EST)
 
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== Sunday Sport ==
 
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Can anyone clarify the actual significance of playing sport on a Sunday? Many people are included here for refusing to play on Sunday, and yet Lewis Hamilton is listed, when his sport take place exclusively on Sundays. --[[User:QPR|QPR]] 08:26, 30 November 2011 (EST)
 
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: Perhaps God has guided Ewen Murray to honour Him by observing the Sabbath, but Lewis Hamilton to glorify Him with outstanding achievements on the Sabbath. Questioning how the Lord has revealed himself to different people is awfully dangerous territory. Be humble enough to understand that He is working in different ways in different people with perfect wisdom. [[User:HollyS|HollyS]] 19:30, 30 November 2011 (EST)
 
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:: You may well be right [[User:HollyS|HollyS]], but the problem is this page is not about sports stars who have been moved to act in particular ways by God; it's about conservative sports stars. It's hardly conservative to say that any behaviour is laudable as long as it's guided by God. Conservationism (thought I hate to oversimplify) is about sticking to some very strict ideas of what is right and what is wrong.--[[User:QPR|QPR]] 08:38, 2 December 2011 (EST)
 
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== Maradona ==
 
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I don't think Maradona should be on this list. First of all, the "Hand of God" Goal was actually a cheated goal. Maradona touched the ball with his hand and later called it the Hand of God...<br />
 
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His personal life, according to the other Wiki, seems not so conservative as well. Maradona is divorced, cheated on his ex-wife, was addicted to cocaine and is nowadays very much befriended with Fidel Castro (according to TOW, he has a tattoo of Castro and Che Guevara) and highly critical of George W. Bush and the United States in general.--[[User:VPropp|VPropp]] 08:20, 12 December 2011 (EST)
 
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:We don't use the other wiki as a source of information, but I agree that Maradona is not conservative at all. Here is a video of Maradona talking at a Hugo Chavez speech. It is in Spanish, what Maradona says is: "Argentina is a worthy country. Lets throw Bush out!" [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzYNxAb36cI] --[[User:AlejandroH|AlejandroH]] 12:33, 12 December 2011 (EST)
 
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:: Thanks for the info cooncerning the use of TOW. I crosschecked it with the German version, but was otherwise just too busy to find reliable data. I knew though beforehand, from reliable sources, that the "Hand of God" Goal had nothing to do with God, but was at best Maradona joking or at worst being blasphemous. À Dieu--[[User:VPropp|VPropp]] 13:05, 12 December 2011 (EST)
 
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== Moe Berg ==
 
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Was Moe Berg really a conservative? I could not find any information on his political views. Being a spy ''during'', not ''before'' WWII, seems insufficient to make him a conservative. I thought he might have been conservative because he turned down the Medal of Freedom which would have been awarded by Harry Truman ( a Democrat), but I couldn't find anything on his reasons to do that either. Additionaly, from what I've read he was not really a great, but rather mediocre sports star, although an extremely interesting one.<br />In conclusion: I don't think he belongs on this list. Any differing opinions?--[[User:VPropp|VPropp]] 12:28, 22 December 2011 (EST)
 
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:Interesting comments.  Does anyone else have information about this?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:38, 22 December 2011 (EST)
 
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::I added him initially. One of our characteristics of a [[Conservative]] is the belief "A strong national defense." Keep in mind he was spying on Japan because there was a strong feeling that we might go to war with them; there were certainly tensions already, and being caught spying in such a context would have had serious consequences for Mr. Berg. Needless to say, no liberal would put his neck on the line like that! I'll go ahead and add him in a few days unless there are objections.[[User:LeRoyB|LeRoyB]] 14:58, 4 January 2012 (EST)
 
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::: Well from what I've read, his spying on Japan consisted of him making a few videos from the roof of a hospital. I'm not quite sure if such an action would have lead to serious consequences. Seems more like normal tourist behaviour. I'm also not quite sure if he did the filming with the intention of spying, or if the OSS aproached him later asking for the film.<br />But be that as it may. Another reason why I'm not too convinced about the national defense angle is that I've read that Mr. Berg mainly wanted to work for the CIA after the War, so he could travel on their expense, which was one of the reasons, why the CIA did not rehire him.<br />As you can see from my comment above, I could not find any other signs that Mr. Berg was a conservative. He seems to have been rather apolitical.<br /> But if you want to readd him, be my guest. He was certainly a very interesting individual, that deserves to be admired.--[[User:VPropp|VPropp]] 15:12, 4 January 2012 (EST)
 
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:::: All good points. In doing more research myself he does seem like more of an oddball than a hero, so I'll look around for some more inspiring entries. Thanks![[User:LeRoyB|LeRoyB]] 13:20, 6 January 2012 (EST)
 
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== Possible Addition? ==
 
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The Conservapedia article on Jeremy Lin talks about his strong Christian faith, and contains a quote of Lin talking about his faith. It looks like it would meet the criteria for "conservative" [[User:Sy20|Sy20]] 11:55, 24 March 2012 (EDT)
 
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:Jeremy is a great person but I'm not sure he has achieved enough yet to make it on this esteemed list.  Can you find quotes about his politics?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:24, 24 March 2012 (EDT)
 
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== Ted Williams ==
 
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Can we find a better example of media bias against Ted Williams? As I recall, the same year Ted hit .400, Joltin' Joe DiMaggio had a 56-game hit streak, and only one of them could win MVP. (Or they could tie in the voting, I guess, but you can't vote for Co-MVPs). Maybe I'm just biased since I'm a Yankees fan, but I think DiMaggio deserved it more that year. Either way, it's questionable. Can anyone think of anything? [[User:Gregkochuconn|Gregkochuconn]] 23:00, 28 April 2012 (EDT)
 
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:DiMaggio's 56-game hit streak was spectacular, and one of the few baseball records that may never be broken.  But a baseball season is 162 games (or 154 games then), and Ted Williams hit .400 over the entire season, not merely part of it.
 
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:An analysis of the media voting shows it was bias that deprived Williams of the MVP that year.  I think one sportswriter left Williams off his ballot entirely, for example.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:19, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
 
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:: Fair enough Andy. I will add information on that sportswriter to the article to make it more clear. And like I said, it's questionable whether Williams or Dimmagio was more impressive. Williams could go 0-for-4 one day and get back on track by going 3-for-4 the next day. Jolting Joe didn't have that luxury. But this isn't a baseball debate, so let's end it. That information about Williams being left off the ballot does indeed show bias. [[User:Gregkochuconn|Gregkochuconn]] 16:46, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
 
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:::Your point is well-taken.  I do think DiMaggio's 56-game hit streak is one of the greatest records in all of sports.  After his streak was broken, he then had another hitting game streak after that, in the same season.  Your edit to the content page is perfect.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:44, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
 
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== Rick Monday ==
 
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I can find no proof of him being a conservative, per se, but he did once save an American Flag from a burning in 1976 during a Chicago Cubs - Los Angeles Dodgers game. [[User:WesleyS|WesleyS]][[User Talk:WesleyS|<sup>Hello!</sup>]] 18:25, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
 
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:That rescue of the American flag -- which was widely publicized -- does suggest that Rick Monday is probably conservative.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:07, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
 
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::Well, it is something I would do as well, although I'm not as conservative as most here.  I'll add him to the list nonetheless.  [[User:WesleyS|WesleyS]][[User Talk:WesleyS|<sup>Hello!</sup>]] 19:45, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
 
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== Sir John Major ==
 
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I am for deleting this entry. The person in question must be recognized for their sporting achievements. For example, I wanted to add Lou Holtz, but he is known for his coaching and not his days playing for Kent State. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 22:54, 10 June 2012 (EDT)
 

Revision as of 23:07, June 11, 2012

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