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Line 1,004: − + − Thanks for keeping our debates cordial. For the record, post-pandemic I am deciding what church to become a long-time member of. + − I have a Catholic friend. He recommended a church in my area that holds to an [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Catholic Evangelical Catholic theology] for the most part. The term Evangelical Catholic (from catholic meaning universal and evangelical meaning Gospel-centered) is used in Lutheranism, alongside the term Augsburg Catholic, with those calling themselves Evangelical Catholic Lutherans or Lutherans of Evangelical Catholic churchmanship stressing the catholicity of historic Lutheranism in liturgy (such as the Mass) and beliefs. Currently, I am attending a "Evangelical Catholic" church. + − Eventually, I will probably attend a conservative Methodist or Lutheran church. Due to my knowledge of church history, I like going to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_church high church] type churches. + − + + − + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Reverted edits by Conservative (talk) to last revision by NishantXavier
From: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-97-appointing-day-national-humiliation-fasting-and-prayer
From: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/proclamation-97-appointing-day-national-humiliation-fasting-and-prayer
== Quick note about our recent debates ==
== Check out my new essay ==
In our last spoken conversation, we talked about the [[Eucharist]] and about [[Martin Luther]].
Read my new essay: [[Essay: The Dakotas, the USA states with the highest percentage of Lutherans, are the most pro-life states in the USA|The Dakotas, the USA states with the highest percentage of Lutherans, are the most pro-life states in the USA]]
Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits". Here I stand, I can do no other! :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 18:33, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
I will not be continuing our debates due to some client deadlines and work/personal goals I have. I have a client meeting on Thursday morning.
:Indeed he did. I myself have been criticized for speaking bluntly, but have learned to moderate my speech when speaking about people's religious beliefs. User:Conservative either forgot or hasn't been able to delete and vandalize the Debate page Nishant created where the two of you came down on opposite sides of a subject. Note the invective used against 1 billion believers as the basis of his position: [[Debate:Does_the_Catholic_Church_have_the_biblical_authority_of_Christ_Himself_to_preach_and_to_teach_the_truth_forever%3F#The_Catholic_Church_is_a_corrupt_joke._Jesus_said_you_will_know_them_by_their_fruits|The Catholic Church is a corrupt joke. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 22:52, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
::One of the individuals who has used the User: Conservative account is a Catholic. Andy Schlafly, the owner of Conservapedia, is a Catholic and we have a very coridal relationship. NishantXavier and I have had cordial spoken conversations.
But I did learn something in our debates and I am leaning towards joining a conservative Methodist church in the future. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:18, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::At the same time, both the Old Testament prophets and Jesus Himself had righteous indignation at times.
::One of the staunchest Catholics in America, Michael Voorhees of ChurchMilitant.com (ChurchMilitant.com is the website of a Catholic apostolate based in the metro Detroit, MI), has railed against the significant problem of homosexual Catholic priests and high-up homosexual Catholic leaders as can be seen [https://www.youtube.com/@ChurchMilitant/search?query=Homosexual HERE] and [https://www.youtube.com/@ChurchMilitant/search?query=Homosexuality HERE].
::"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven." - King [[Solomon]]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:16, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
:::"'''Deuteronomy 17:16.''' He [the king] shall not multiply horses — Though he might have horses for his own use, yet he was not to have many horses for his officers and guard, much less for war, lest he should trust in them."<br>'''2 Chronicles 1:14''' "Solomon brought together many chariots and horses for his soldiers to ride."
:::Your quotations from scripture is what Conservapedia describes as a "[[Cafeteria Christian]]." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 23:40, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
:(ec) We all pretty much understand the church or a church to refer to people, the body of believers. But User:Cons doesn't qualify the assertion with "Catholic hierarchy" or "Catholic traditions". No. He makes the sweeping generalization that one billion members of the Roman Catholic Church are "a corrupt joke."
:Now this isn't the first time User:Cons made inarticulate and foolish comments in a high profile discussion; if you try to clarify his meaning and intent with him, you will discover it's your fault for not being able to read his mind, rather than accepting his words "as is". By their fruits ye shall know them. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 23:22, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
:::RobS, I suggest you bring up this matter to the owner of the website as soon as possible. Godspeed. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:36, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
::::Nah. I'm not a vindictive person or motivated by vindictiveness - nor in a contest to prove who the biggest butt-kisser on the server is. By their fruits ye shall know them. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 23:43, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
== 3 Shocking Things Luther said ==
Ok, Friends, let's look at 3 Shocking Things Luther said:
1. '''"The Book of James an Epistle of Straw", an insult to the Holy Ghost Who inspired the Apostle; Little Jimmy [the Apostle James] should be thrown into the stove:''' "Away with James! Its authority is not great enough to cause me to abandon the doctrine of faith … If they [referring to other teachers] will not agree to my interpretations, then I shall make rubble of it. I almost feel like throwing Jimmy into the stove. It is flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture in ascribing justification to works … Therefore I do not want him in my Bible.4
Luther went so far as to assert that no one could be saved who did not agree with him on this crucial issue of justification."
From: https://chnetwork.org/2018/06/05/luther-the-rest-of-the-story-part-iii-through-open-doors-into-paradise/
St. James the Apostle, the First Bishop of Jerusalem, who authored the Epistle of James, was a Holy Martyr for Jesus Christ. He was called "James the Just" even by the unbelieving Jews because of his matchless Sanctity. He used to kneel in prayer before the Lord all the time. He used to worship God along with the Jews and minister to them when possible. They finally killed him by throwing him of a balcony when he was asked who Jesus Christ was. He answered them: "Why do you ask me concerning Jesus? Do you not know He is the Son of God, and seated at the Right Hand of Power"? Then they were angry with him and said: "The Just One has erred" and threw him to his death. Before he died, he prayed, loving and forgiving his enemies, "Lord do not hold this sin against them". This James is also mentioned by Josephus. He was a cousin brother or relative of Our Lord Jesus Christ, being the son of Alpheus. Some Jews held the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was because of the murder of James the Apostle. Here St. Jerome: "In the eighth book of his Antiquities he [Josephus] most openly acknowledges that Christ was slain by the Pharisees on account of the greatness of his miracles, that John the Baptist was truly a prophet, and that Jerusalem was destroyed because of the murder of James the Apostle." (St. Jerome on Josephus and James the Apostle)
What Holy Martyrdom did you ever suffer for Christ, o Luther, that you dare to attack St. James, and attack the Holy Spirit in doing so?
Here is St. James 2 which Martin Luther so much disliked: '''"Faith Without Works Is Dead'''
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [f]your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [h]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [i]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [j]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." Amen. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 03:28, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
See this also: "I do not admit that my doctrine can be judged by anyone, even the angels. He who does not receive my doctrine [of sola fide] cannot be saved.5" https://chnetwork.org/2018/06/05/luther-the-rest-of-the-story-part-iii-through-open-doors-into-paradise/
Extremely Foolish, Luther was. May God have Mercy on his Soul. In Jesus' Name. Amen. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 03:40, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
When Jesus Christ taught to store up Treasures in Heaven by Good Works like Alms-Giving, He sufficiently indicated that Good Works play a part in Salvation. We are Justified by Grace, then we receive Sanctification through a life-long process of Good Works, then we receive Final Perseverance in Grace and Full Salvation in the hour of death. The Lord said: "The one who perseveres to the end will be saved" (Mat 24:13). Will get back later. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 03:47, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:NishantXavier, I know that faith without works is dead.[https://www.theologyofwork.org/new-testament/general-epistles/james-faith-works/faith-and-works-james-214-26/][https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/do-paul-james-disagree-on-justification-by-faith-alone/] And James also said, "You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works".[https://www.crossway.org/articles/are-we-justified-by-grace-or-by-works/] So Luther made a mistake in this area. I also disagree with some of the other things Luther said (Some of his comments on the Book of Revelation, etc.). And a very conservative Lutheran pastor told me that sometimes Luther contradicted himself and that his right-hand man Philip Melanchthon made corrections and clarified things.
:But at the same time, my data shows that Lutherans are actually doing better than Catholics in the USA on the works front as far as pro-life issues and family life (Having kids) so they are doing quite well as far as works (And this is especially true among the most conservative Lutherans such as the ones in the Dakatas and conservative branches within Lutheranism). See: [[Essay: The Dakotas, the USA states with the highest percentage of Lutherans, are the most pro-life states in the USA|The Dakotas, the USA states with the highest percentage of Lutherans, are the most pro-life states in the USA]]
:With that being said, Michael Voris' YouTube channel ChurchMilitant.com (A very staunch Catholic YouTube channel) '''recently''' said on multiple occasions that homosexual clergy/leadership is still a significant problem in the Catholic church as can be seen at [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PywMuyFrl1E Pope's Fraternity Fest Flaunts Semi-Nude Gay Dancer | Rome Dispatch] '''(produced 1 month ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXtzR8a3hfc Top Cardinal: Don't Blame Gay Priests For Sex Abuse | Rome Dispatch] '''(produced 1 month ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXNGrHMAZYw Catholic — News Report — Priest Taps Jewish Scholar to Defend Homosexuality] '''(Produced 10 months ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs5WJpc2j8M The Vortex — It's Homosexuality, Stupid!] '''(produced one year ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao_C8xVCBAg The Vortex — Homosexual Hierarchy] '''(Produced 2 years ago).'''
:In addition, I do stand by my post at:[https://www.conservapedia.com/Debate:Does_the_Catholic_Church_have_the_biblical_authority_of_Christ_Himself_to_preach_and_to_teach_the_truth_forever%3F#The_Catholic_Church_is_a_corrupt_joke._Jesus_said_you_will_know_them_by_their_fruits The Catholic Church is a corrupt joke. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits]
:And we disagree on various Catholic doctrines relating to papal authority (Ex-Cathedra, Mary/saints, etc.).
:The bottom line is that the Catholic Church still needs significant reform and has a significant corruption problem. Also, I would argue that Luther's attempts to reform the Catholic Church did have some positive effects (Indulgences, etc.). [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 05:47, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::Wud I tell ya? He gets called out on his invective and he doubles down. I'm of a mind to call him on the phone and cuss him out. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 14:42, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
No, you are mistaken. I know some in the Church in the US are liberal, and that's for other reasons. There are 1.3 BN Catholic Christians in the world, and some are extremely devout, especially in the developing world, like Africa and Asia, as well as many Good American and European Catholic Christians. Pope St. John Paul II is one such and he, even according to Gorbachev, helped bring down the Soviet Union.
But Martin Luther was a very wicked man and his Anti-Christian Revolution was not of God: "The followers of Martin Luther don't deny that he said Christ committed adultery three times. They do debate, however, if he was drunk or just being sarcastic when he said it.
Luther's blasphemous statement is recorded in what historians call his "table talks," a series of comments on various topics that were recorded by his followers. In one such comment, Luther remarked:
Christ committed adultery first of all with the woman at the well about whom St. John tells us. Was not everybody about Him saying, "Whatever has he been doing with her?" Secondly, with Mary Magdalene and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery whom he dismissed so lightly. Thus, even Christ who was so righteous must have been guilty of fornication before He died."
Pathetic Blasphemy! From: https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/luther-said-christ-committed-adultery-three-times
How right St. Thomas More was when he observed of Luther: "There are not many who have shown themselves Enemies of that See [the See/Throne of St. Peter in Rome] who have not, SHORTLY THERAFTER SHOWN THEMSELVES TO BE ENEMIES OF THE WHOLE CHRISTIAN RELIGION".
Since Luther said Christ was an Adulterer and committed Adultery 3 times and was "guilty of fornication", he was an Anti-Christian Blasphemer.
Since you quote Michal Voris so much, you should read the above also which is from Michael Voris' Church Militant. Martin Luther was a very wicked man, like those later heretics Darwin and Marx, who were also Vicious Racists [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 06:30, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
While my Site ReasonstobeChristian is and will remain Fairly Ecumenical, I will always oppose Anti-Catholic Bigots like Martin Luther was:
"Basic Introduction and the Purpose of this Website:
Welcome, Dear Brothers, Sisters and Friends, to Reasons to become Christian!
Here, as the name of our site implies, we aim to discuss the answers to the Great Question: "Are there Good Reasons to trust Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior or become Christian?" 2.6 Billion Christians around the world, including much of the free world, but also 360 Million Christians who suffer persecution for their Faith, have answered in the affirmative. This site explores Apologetic Reasons why we believe the remaining part of humanity should do the same also. Stay tuned!
From (1) Messianic Prophecies made 100s of years before Christ to (2) Incredible Design/Fine Tuning manifest in the Universe, to (3) Documented and Irrefutable Healing Miracles in Jesus' Name to (4) DNA: Amazing Scientific Proof a Most Wise Supreme Being created us and (5) Archaeological Evidence: "No archaeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical Reference", prepare to be amazed, if you've never heard it before, how much evidence there is for Christianity!
And there's much more: (6) "The Great Saints and their Miracles in 2000 Glorious Years of Christendom" (St. Patrick, St. Francis Xavier, St. John Vianney, St. Padre Pio etc) (7) Eucharistic Miracles: A Very Powerful Evidence for the Truth of Christianity. (8) The Shroud of Turin: Wondrous Artifact/Relic of the Historical Christ's Resurrection. (9)The Resurrection: The Best Documented Fact in History- for which 11 Apostles suffered and died as Martyrs, many more of the 72 disciples doing the same, and witnessed by 500 Eyewitnesses - is Christ's Resurrection.
God bless you all, dear friends, and the deepest most burning desire of my heart is that we may all be saved, live happily here on Earth loving and serving Almighty God, and doing good to our neighbor, and then enjoying eternal happiness with Him, Jesus Christ, His Mother Mary, His legal father St. Joseph, all His Angels and Saints, forever and ever, world without end, Amen!"
From: https://reasonstobechristian.com/ [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 06:32, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:[[Zelensky]]'s not doing so good with his neighbors in [[Donbas]]. Then again, Zelensky's not Christian, either. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 14:55, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
=== Additional response from a discussion participant and Subsequent Rejoinders ===
:Michael Voris of ChurchMilitant.com (ChurchMilitant.com is the website of a Catholic apostolate based in the metro Detroit, MI) is a very staunch Catholic. And I know that you are not wanting to address his very credible and legitimate concerns about the significant extent of the homosexual Catholic priests/hierarchy problem so I regret to say that we cannot have a productive conversation about this matter. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 06:35, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::More [[MSM]] [[brainwashing]]. It's only in the US and Germany where about 150-160 million of world's 1.3 billion Roman Catholics live, and [[atheist]] lawyers have attempted to [[bankrupt]] the church. Why don't they and their [[media]] sycophants go after [[public school]] teachers where the incidence of child sexual abuse is much more frequent, by a factor of more than 100. Oh, public schools and public school teachers are a sacred institution. We can't have people losing faith and confidence in government and government schools. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 15:05, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::Update: your MSM, which you put so much faith and trust in, now says homosexuality is "normal". So why the focus on demonizing Catholic priests, other than the source of it is bigotry or aligns with an MSM news consumers [[bigotry]]? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 15:08, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
You need to address why Martin Luther was an Anti-Catholic Bigot and Anti-Christian Blasphemer who hated Jesus Christ and called Him an Adulterer. If your friend called even you an Adulterer after you'd just spend some time with a woman without any sin, would you like that? How much less will Jesus Christ, the Sinless Lamb of God, like being blasphemed by Martin Luther? It won't go well for Martin Luther on Judgment Day unless he repented of his sins and retracted his errors before death. No one wants to see Almighty God in His Wrath after having said God committed adultery with 3 woman without repenting of that. If you don't address it, it stands unrefuted. Luther was evil. Luther was like Darwin and Marx. He hated Jesus Christ and he deceived and confused many, even some good people. Now, Ive unconfused you. If you want to know the Truth, that is.
You should know the Rate of Abuse in the Protestant Churches is higher than in the Catholic Church. Stats Subsequently. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 06:43, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
"In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”[xxi]
Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.[xxii]"
https://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-abuse-in-social-context-clergy-and-other-professionals/ The Rate of Abuse (1) is about 1% among Priests (2) 2.5 % among Protestants (3) 5 % among Secular School Teachers. Priests have a 99% Success Rate in rooting out this evil Behavior, Protestants only 97.5% and Secular Teachers only 95%. It is a problem in all sections of societies, and it is a Crime and must be rooted out with 0% Tolerance and aim for a 100% Success Rate in rooting it out, but the facts show Priests do better than Pastors and Teachers. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 06:47, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:::Adultry outside marriage is common among Protestant clergy, and virtually absent among Catholic clergy. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 15:23, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::NishantXavier, there are liberal portions or Protestantism and very conservative portions of Protestantism. I have been a member of conservative Protestant churches for a very significant portion of time and there has never been a big problem of conservative Protestant churches in my areas (I have lived in a fairly large city and in a big city. I also traveled throughout the USA for awhile for a U.S. corporation) as far as having a pedophilia problem (I don't know of a single instance of it occurring in the areas I have lived in as far as conservative Protestant churches), but there was a VERY BIG problem with the Catholic church diocese in my current area as far as far as pedophilia.
[[File:I'm not listening.gif|right|300px|thumb|Nah nah, I can't hear you. I've decided to withdraw from this discussion.]]
::Also, the Catholic Church has a lot of power that they can wield against proponents of homosexuality and practicing homosexuals within the clergy and church hierarchy such as ex-communication. But as Michael Voris shows they are not doing it and there is currently still a big problem.
::Next, as far as your claim that Luther "hated Jesus Christ and called Him an Adulterer", it initially seems unclear in terms of historicity, etc after seeing counter-arguments at: [https://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2022/07/luther-christ-committed-adultery-primer.html Luther Said Christ Committed Adultery? A Primer on How to Respond]. And Luther's life doesn't reflect someone who hated Jesus Christ.
::Lastly, your total lack of response in relation to my Dakotas data or to address the Michael Voris' legitimate concerns shows me that you are not acting in good faith in our discussion. Given that I have given good-faith responses to your points, this is unacceptable and I have decided to withdraw from our discussion. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 08:45, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::::Nishant, when User:Cons gets his butt kicked in a discussion, he always decides to "withdraw" to focus more on career. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 15:23, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::::''Faith without works is dead.''
::::User:Conservative: So, you decided to not do the work of standing for the Protestant faith? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 15:30, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:::I edited my reply above as far as the Luther/Jesus/adulterer allegation. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 14:09, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::::There is a discernable pattern here. User Cons makes an outlandish assertion, for example "the Catholic Church is a joke". If he hasn't deleted the discussion yet along with everyone's contributions, two years later he gets called out on the assertion. Rather than say, "I misspoke", "it was hyberbole", "I didn't mean to say...", or even "I erred", etc etc etc, he doubles down with "I stand by my statement" (User:Cons has stubbornness confused with [[conservativism]]) and then suddenly has more important things to do with his career and "withdraws" from discussion (but he'll be back in less than 24 hours with a fresh round of absurdities).
::::And these misunderstandings are always someone else's fault; someone else is being uncooperative or "acting in bad faith", but he'll be back after "withdrawing" from discussion in less than 24 hours, and does not consider openly lying to other editors as "acting in bad faith." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 15:41, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::::Kudos to you, Nishant. He'll never admit it, but it looks [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Protestant_cultural_legacies&curid=138795&diff=1967400&oldid=1967036 Nishant caused User:Cons to rethink his position] (even though he has stubbornness confused with conservativism). Will he ever apologize for calling the body of believers "a corrupt joke"? He's doubled down on the statement 2 years later. "Here I stand, I can do no other!"
::::Cons is what I call a lone wolf, he has trouble working with others. This began with him trying to organize a [[conspiracy]] cause he figured you were an anti-Putin Nazi. Now he has to rethink his whole life and his boasting of Protestant cultural achievements. Good work. By their fruits ye shall know them. Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account. In judgement, I have more confidence in defending my swearing in dealing with ignorance and stupidity before God (which I'm sure he God has long experience with and can empathize with a loss of patience) than others who write thousands of articles on Atheism with a malicious attitude toward atheists and not for the glory of God. He told me as much. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 22:08, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
Cons: you can reply or withdraw just as you pls. I will continue documenting some errors of Martin Luther on my homepage for the record, and maybe write an article on it for my website later on. I did address your points (1) firstly, you brought up Michael Voris, so I mentioned he has documented this too. Luther did say it, and Lutheran scholars know it. Here it is again: "The followers of Martin Luther don't deny that he said Christ committed adultery three times. They do debate, however, if he was drunk or just being sarcastic when he said it." https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/luther-said-christ-committed-adultery-three-times Second, this or that incident is not the main thing, but the overall rate of abuse. It is lower in the Catholic Church than in Protestant churches. I'm not anti-Protestant, as my website clearly shows. I am however Anti-Anti-Catholics. If you can claim, "The Catholic Church is a corrupt joke", why can't I say: "The Lutheran Church is a corrupt joke". 1.3 BN Catholics, e.g. in Pro-Life Catholic Poland and elsewhere, are doing so much to advance the Cause of Life and Save Babies. The Lutheran church has but little influence by comparison, and moreover, like the rest of Protestantism, is hopelessly divided into many denominations. Anyway, I stand my ground. Luther was not a good man. Many of those who followed him, though, in ignorance, were good. Now that you see Luther did say this and other erroneous things - like Christians can commit Adultery 1000s of times a day, mortal sins which cause the soul to lose grace and the Holy Spirit - you should re-evaluate him imo.
In Christ. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 19:02, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::As far as my position on Luther and faith/works/holiness/sanctification, please go [[User: Conservative/faith-works-holiness-sanctification|HERE]] which copies my post in the discussion thread below. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:41, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:::He's just spamming - another discernable pattern.
:::Look, User:Cons, I understand your posting about "the Catholic Church is a corrupt joke" is your version or attempt at being snarky; others might call it inartful, inarticulate, offensive, bigoted (or maybe just plain stupid). But the fact remains nobody is going to read your garbage until you apologize. And you doubled down on your inartful statement yesterday - so now you owe two apologies, and a reasonable amount of time to show you have learned from your errors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 23:14, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
== Some Further Errors of Martin Luther: Error #3, we can commit adultery and murder 1000 times a day without imperiling Salvation ==
So error 1 was (1) St. James is an Epistle of Straw, and not inspired, and "Jimmy" should be thrown into the stove, (2) Error 2 was that Christ allegedly committed adultery 3 times, which Lutheran Scholars btw don't deny is in his works, (3) Error 3 is now that we ourselves can allegedly also commit adultery not just 3 times but even 1000s of times a day without imperiling Salvation! This man was confused.
Here's the Source, Lutheran/Protestant: "“If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation.”
— MARTIN LUTHER
“This is truly one of the most disturbing things Martin Luther ever said. He would have done well to remember the words of St. Paul, ‘Shall we go on sinning that grace may increase? God forbid it!’ Romans 6:1-2.
I know that Luther is a very important figure for those in protestantism, for those in the cults, and even for secularists, since all of them trace their movements to a great degree to what Luther did.
However, the idea that a person can rape and murder their [sic] way into heaven because they [sic] have ‘imputed’ righteousness should be abhorrent to anyone who has the Holy Spirit dwelling in them [sic]. And I think statements like this should at least make us pause and reconsider whether his influence has been for better or worse.”
From: https://www.gottesdienst.org/gottesblog/2021/6/20/lbf6kdhqbxk3c0ks5ccd5ojvmxtqzy
And see this also: '''"On Sin'''
Christ taught: “He that commits sin is of the devil: for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God appeared that He might destroy the works of the devil.” - 1 John 3:8
Luther teaches: “A person that is baptized cannot, thou he would, lose his salvation by any sins however grievous, unless he refuses to believe. For no sins can damn him but unbelief alone.”[17]
"Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides... '''No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day."'''[18] ('Let Your Sins Be Strong, from 'The Wittenberg Project;' 'The Wartburg Segment', translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther's Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521. - Cf. Also Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404).)
"Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes." [19]" From: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/matluther.htm (Luther, Exposing the Myth). [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 18:53, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:I dunno; I hope you are quoting this guy out of context, cause it looks awfully close to blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, attributing to Satan the work of God.
:''how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?''
:[[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 21:11, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::I don't expect to have a dialogue with NishantXavier because he doesn't respond to others points because he doesn't wish to. And trying to force someone to be reasonable is a fool's errand.
::But for the sake of others, here is the context: [https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/did-luther-really-tell-us-to-love-god-and-sin-boldly/ Did Luther Really Tell Us to ‘Love God and Sin Boldly’?].
::I'm diving deeper into theology and so far, it appears as if I favor conservative Methodism over conservative Lutheranism because it appears to better reflect the biblical view of faith/works and sanctification/holiness better. The Mennonites have some good aspects, but since the historical evidence points to believing in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_presence_of_Christ_in_the_Eucharist real presence theology] in relation to the Eucharist, I can't see myself being a full-bore Mennonite. That being said, I am impressed with the pro-life behavior of the people in the Dakotas (high Lutheran percentage) which appears to be superior to that of the Catholics/Protestants in other states. See: [[Essay: The Dakotas, the USA states with the highest percentage of Lutherans, are the most pro-life states in the USA]]. Remember, in Jesus' parable of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Two_Sons#:~:text=3%20Interpretation-,Summary,but%20he%20didn't%20go. Parable of the Two Sons], the son who said he wasn't going to go out in the field and did was seen as more righteous than the son who said he was going to go out into the field, but didn't do it. So it is impressive that the Lutherans in the Dakotas are actually behaving better than the Americans in other states.
::I will never become a Catholic due to some of their unbiblical doctrines such as the primacy of Rome and ex-cathedra theology; doctrines related to Mary/saints, unbibibical doctrines on penance/indulgences and other unbiblical doctrines such as purgatory. In addition, [https://www.conservapedia.com/Debate:Does_the_Catholic_Church_have_the_biblical_authority_of_Christ_Himself_to_preach_and_to_teach_the_truth_forever%3F#The_Catholic_Church_is_a_corrupt_joke._Jesus_said_you_will_know_them_by_their_fruits the Catholic Church is corrupt and has a history of corruption]. Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits". For example, NishantXavier dodges the legitimate concerns of Michael Voris about the current problems of the Catholic hierarchy/clergy in relation to promoting and/or engaging in homosexuality.
::Michael Voris' YouTube channel ChurchMilitant.com (A very staunch Catholic YouTube channel. ChurchMilitant.com is the website of a Catholic apostolate based in the metro Detroit, MI) '''recently''' said on multiple occasions that homosexual clergy/leadership is still a significant problem in the Catholic church as can be seen at [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PywMuyFrl1E Pope's Fraternity Fest Flaunts Semi-Nude Gay Dancer | Rome Dispatch] '''(produced 1 month ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXtzR8a3hfc Top Cardinal: Don't Blame Gay Priests For Sex Abuse | Rome Dispatch] '''(produced 1 month ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXNGrHMAZYw Catholic — News Report — Priest Taps Jewish Scholar to Defend Homosexuality] '''(Produced 10 months ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs5WJpc2j8M The Vortex — It's Homosexuality, Stupid!] '''(produced one year ago)''' and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao_C8xVCBAg The Vortex — Homosexual Hierarchy] '''(Produced 2 years ago).''' [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:29, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:I was wrong. Less than 24 hours after "withdrawing" from the discussion, he adds 4,000 bytes of [[spam]]. This is the discernable pattern - and fits a textbook definition of bad faith editing. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 22:51, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:Big deal. So the Dakota Lutherans obey the Pope and are in bed with the [[corrupt]] [[Roman Catholic]] [[body of Christ]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 22:58, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::NishantXavier told me in the past how spotless/pure the Catholic church is. It isn't. For example, the Vatican hierarchy appears to be a cesspool right now. What Michael Voris is portraying as far as homosexuality within the clergy/hierarchy with real facts is more impressive than NishanXavier's "spotless/pure" zealot/ideologue line. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:08, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:::Here are other big recent scandals of the Catholic Church: [https://religionnews.com/2022/01/28/vatican-braces-for-2022-deficit-as-donations-drop-in-wake-of-financial-scandal/ Vatican braces for 2022 deficit as donations drop in wake of financial scandal] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL54GIEPXKY Accused Bishop Named Cardinal | Rome Dispatch]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:19, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
In my city, due to all the Catholic pedophilia scandal lawsuits and spiritual bankruptcy, the following happened: the local Catholic diocese went bankrupt due to pedophilia lawsuits; mass attendance is down over 40% from a decade ago; there is a severe Catholic priest shortage so now various churches don't have priests; and the nun population is down 80% since I was child. So now there are a lot of ex-Catholics in my city's Protestant churches.
And today, I picked up a paper in my local grocery and lo and behold, there is Catholic priest pedophilia news on the front page of my cities local news paper.
But I haven't heard of one conservative Protestant church pedophilia church scandal in my city.
NishantXaiver's claims on how holy, spotless and pure the Catholic church is rings very hollow. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:07, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::Never interrupt your opponent when he's in the process of self-destruction. ''He that diggeth a pit shall surely fall into it.'' Looks like your anti-RobS conspiracy in Essay space is falling on deaf ears. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 00:01, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::It's not just me, a Protestant, who is finding the Catholic church's behavior wanting.
:::I cite: "Donations to the Holy See are expected to continue to drop following financial scandals currently at the heart of a high-profile Vatican trial. The institution is tackling an expected deficit of $37 million, according to its 2022 budget projection published Friday (Jan. 28)."[https://religionnews.com/2022/01/28/vatican-braces-for-2022-deficit-as-donations-drop-in-wake-of-financial-scandal/]
:::NishantXavier, the pope and the papacy has been weighed in the balance by Catholic parishioners and they have been found wanting! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:13, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::Now I understand the superiority of attack over defense. You can't defend your boasting about [[Protestant cultural legacies]], so you go over to attack against me, Nishant, the Roman Catholic Church and its hierarchy. And this all started by trying to recruit Nishant into a pro-Nazi, anti-Putin campaign against me.
::As a strategist, you don't seem to think things through, and don't prepare the necessary contingencies. Just attack attack attack, destroy destroy destroy. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 00:12, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
{{quotebox-float|‘I thank you, God, that I am not like other people—cheaters, sinners, adulterers. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ }}
::And I'll even throw in a few cuss words if it'll help to get your attention and focus. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 00:22, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::RobS, NishantXavier and I are closer in theology than you. In terms of justification, neither of us believes in cheap grace theology like you. And we both believe in real presence theology in relation to the Eucharist whereas you do not - despite Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of the Apostle John upholding it (And no early church historical figure is on record of not holding real presence theology in relation to the Eucharist). And we both go to a [https://www.gotquestions.org/high-church-low-church.html high church] service whereas you attend a low church type service. I think NishantXaiver probably understands various aspects of theology and church history better than you. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:33, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::Oh, God is pro-Nazi now, too, I suppose. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 00:45, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
== Error #4: The Book of Revelation is allegedly "neither Apostolic nor Prophetic", nor all that good and blessed to keep ==
"About this Book of the Revelation of John, I leave everyone free to hold his own opinions. I would not have anyone bound to my opinion or judgment. I say what I feel. I miss more than one thing in this book, and it makes me consider it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic...
Moreover he seems to me to be going much too far when he commends his own book so highly [Revelation 22]—indeed, more than any of the other sacred books do, though they are much more important—and threatens that if anyone takes away anything from it, God will take away from him, etc. Again, they are supposed to be blessed who keep what is written in this book; and yet no one knows what that is, to say nothing of keeping it. This is just the same as if we did not have the book at all. And there are many far better books available for us to keep ... I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it." From: https://www.universitylutheran.church/luther-on-revelation.html
That says more about the spirit that guided you than the Spirit that guided St. John, Luther. Revelation is a blessed book and he who reads and keeps it is indeed blessed, as the writer rightly says.
Probably it was words like these on Good Works, from Lord Jesus Christ Himself, that so offended the misguided Martin Luther.
"Rev 3:4 "You have a few names [d]even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels .. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne."
Christians are called to overcome sin, not commit adultery or murder 1000s of times a day. Those who do this will receive thrones in Heaven. They will be clothed in white and receive other rich rewards in the Kingdom of Heaven. Once more, Good Works matter, not faith alone. See Revelation 2 also which confirms this point.
Rev 2:23b: "...And I will give to each one of you according to your works."
Rev 2:26: "26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—"
Rev 22:7: "7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”"
Rev 22:14 "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."
Rev 22:12: "12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work." [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 19:10, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
== Errors 5, 6 and More of Martin Luther, on Faith and Good Works, on the Peasant Rebellion, on Social Justice etc ==
This was an Anti-Christian Revolution from Martin Luther to destroy the Priesthood and the Holy Eucharist. Without the Priesthood, you have no Holy Communion. Jesus Christ in John Chapter 6 says you must eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, which is a reference to Holy Communion. Martin Luther is like Korah in the Old Testament who rebelled against Moses and the Priesthood and was condemned by God.
Continued: '''"Faith and Good works'''
Christ taught, “Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your father who is in heaven.”[20]
Christ taught (in the words of St. James) “What shall it profit, my brethren, if a he has faith, but has not works? Shall faith be able to save him? So faith also, if it have not works is dead in itself.”[21]
Luther teaches: “For we account a man to be justified by faith alone, without the works of the law.” – On Translation and on the Intercession of the Saints
“It is more important to guard against good works than against sin.”[22]
"Good works are bad and are sin like the rest." -[23]
“There is no scandal greater, more dangerous, more venomous, than a good outward life, manifested by good works and a pious mode of life. That is the grand portal, the highway that leads to damnation." [24]
“He that says the Gospel requires works for salvation, I say, flat and plain, is a liar.”[25]
'''Social Justice
'''Christ taught: “Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.”[26]
Luther teaches[27]: “Peasants are no better than straw. They will not hear the word and they are without sense; therefore they must be compelled to hear the crack of the whip and the whiz of bullets and it is only what they deserve.” [28]
“To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them. Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!” – “If they say that I am very hard and merciless, mercy be damned. Let whoever can stab, strangle, and kill them like mad dogs”[29]
“I, Martin Luther, have during the rebellion slain al the peasants, for it was I who ordered them to be struck dead. All their blood is upon my head. But I put it all on our Lord God: for he commanded me to speak thus.”[30]
From: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/matluther.htm All with unimpeachable references and sources. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 05:49, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:Germany's Peasant Rebellion predated the French Revolution.
:The [[French Revolution]] was against the ruler of France and partly anti-clerical in nature. Poor economic conditions played a part.
:The Protestant reformer [[John Wesley]] caused greater Christianization in the UK and spread Christian values in terms of helping the poor. And Protestant values make a country more prosperous. See: [[Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism]]. A great many Catholic countries in Latin America plus the Philippines have corruption and poverty.
:If the Catholic Church had made French society better, perhaps there never would have been a French Revolution. The French Revolution helped cause the secularization of France and Europe. See: [[French Revolution and atheism]]
:The Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815) were a series of conflicts fought between the First French Empire under Napoleon (1804–1815), and a fluctuating array of European coalitions. The wars originated in political forces arising from the French Revolution (1789–1799) and from the French Revolutionary Wars (1792–1802) (the War of the First Coalition (1792–1797) and the War of the Second Coalition (1798–1802)), and produced a period of French domination over Continental Europe. {{Unsigned|User:Conservative}}
::[https://www.bitchute.com/video/B2Pp3cTIVJKf/ He keeps coming back for more]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 17:15, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
Answer the evil false doctrines if you can, leave the history aside for now. Luther taught Good Works are a sin; he encouraged and incited killings and murders that led to the deaths of 300,000 peasants: "The revolt failed because of intense opposition from the aristocracy, who slaughtered up to 100,000 of the 300,000 poorly armed peasants and farmers.[1]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants%27_War
See also: "In Against the Robbing Murderous Hordes of Peasants he encouraged the nobility to swiftly and violently eliminate the rebelling peasants, stating,"[the peasants] must be sliced, choked, stabbed, secretly and publicly, by those who can, like one must kill a rabid dog."[10] After the conclusion of the Peasants' War, he was criticized for his writings in support of the violent actions taken by the ruling class. He responded by writing an open letter to Caspar Muller, defending his position. However, he also stated that the nobles were too severe in suppression of the insurrection, despite having called for severe violence in his previous work.[11] Luther has often been sharply criticized for his position.[12]" Luther was a very bad man and his Anti-Christian Revolution immediately caused big problems
Most people do not read. They do not study. That's why they fall into Error. They do not learn. They do not Pray. The French Revolutions and Communist Revolutions were even worse Anti-Christian Revolutions but the logical culminations of Martin Luther's Anti-Christian Revolution. The demise and downfall of Western Civilization began with Calvin and Luther. Calvin taught Total Depravity, Limited Atonement, OSAS and other Heresies. Luther was as bad as him and taught various heresies also, including denying Free-Will. Blasphemer he was, worse than Calvin. Only someone who does not love Jesus Christ can say Christ committed adultery, or that we can 1000s times a day.
The Priesthood has been destroyed in the protestant churches. You no longer have the Holy Communion and Holy Eucharist. You must return. "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My Blood abides in Me and I in him", said the Lord, and this can be done only in the Catholic Church. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 17:22, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
== Catholic Church and Charity, Social Justice, Education, Healthcare etc ==
Catholic Church and Charity: "The Catholic Church operates numerous charitable organizations.
Catholic spiritual teaching includes spreading the Gospel, while Catholic social teaching emphasises support for the sick, the poor and the afflicted through the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. The Catholic Church is the largest non-governmental provider of education and medical services in the world.[1] The Catholic Church has had a long tradition of coordinating charity to the poor, something that was closely linked to the early Christian Eucharist, with the office of deacon being started for this purpose.[2] " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_charities Have to write some Conservapedia articles on these. Will do that subsequently as time permits. But these are all well known facts.
Catholic Church and Healthcare: "In modern times, the Catholic Church is the largest non-government provider of health care in the world. Catholic religious have been responsible for founding and running networks of hospitals across the world where medical research continues to be advanced.[28] In 2013, Robert Calderisi wrote that the Catholic Church has around 18,000 clinics, 16,000 homes for the elderly and those with special needs, and 5,500 hospitals – with 65 per cent of them located in developing countries.[2]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_health_care Q.E.D. Attacking Good Works is evil and sinful. That's what Luther did. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 05:52, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
== Error #7 could be Anti-Semitic Hatred of Jews, which is very well known. But more on that later ==
Anyone who has read "On the Jews and their Lies" knows this. Christians must love Jews and minister to them, not be Bigoted Racist Anti-Semites who hate them, as Martin Luther was: "“Set fire to their synagogues or schools,” Martin Luther recommended in On the Jews and Their Lies. Jewish houses should “be razed and destroyed,” and Jewish “prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, [should] be taken from them.” In addition, “their rabbis [should] be forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb.” Still, this wasn’t enough." https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-39/was-luther-anti-semitic.html [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 05:56, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
The Gospel does require works for salvation, Mr. Martin Luther. Christ teaches that plainly in Matthew 25, where He shows only those Sheep who not only believed in Him but also were fruitful in Good Works will enter the Kingdom of God. Why did the Rich Man in the Rich Man and Lazarus story go to Hell? Because he sinned mortally by failing in the Commandment to love his neighbor and take care of him, though he had plenty of money and this was very easy for him. And why did Christ in the Parable of the Talents sentence one Bad Servant to Hell, while Rewarding Two Others? Because those 2 others did Good Works from the Grace He gave them, and thus merited a Reward. The Wicked Servant refused to do Good Works and thus was justly lost. Luther impiously rejected Merits. When Christ said store Treasures in Heaven by Good Works like Alms-Giving, that's a Reference to the Treasury of Merits that the Saints have stored up by Good Works, and which we're to store up also in like manner: By Good Works. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 06:01, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
See Tobit on Good Works, Alms-Giving and Laying up Treasure, which the Lord Jesus Christ is referring to. Tobit is a wonderful Jewish Book that was in the Christian Canon for around 1200 years since 4th Century Catholic Church Councils (along with all other 72 Bible Books, 73 in all), before the anti-Catholic and anti-semitic bigoted heretic Martin Luther impiously took it out, thus violating the statement in Revelation not to do that, which Book of Revelation he also rejected:
Tobit 4: "6 And all the days of thy life have God in thy mind: and take heed thou never consent to sin, nor transgress the commandments of the Lord our God.
7 Give alms out of thy substance, and turn not away thy face from any poor person: for so it shall come to pass that the face of the Lord shall not be turned from thee.
8 According to thy ability be merciful.
9 If thou have much give abundantly: if thou have a little, take care even so to bestow willingly a little.
10 For thus thou storest up to thyself a good reward for the day of necessity.
For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps you from going into the Darkness.
11 Indeed, almsgiving, for all who practice it, is an excellent offering in the presence of the Most High.
12 "Beware, my son, of every kind of fornication. First of all, marry a woman from among the descendants of your ancestors; do not marry a foreign woman, who is not of your father's tribe; for we are the descendants of the prophets. Remember, my son, that Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, our ancestors of old, all took wives from among their kindred. They were blessed in their children, and their posterity will inherit the land.
13 So now, my son, love your kindred, and in your heart do not disdain your kindred, the sons and daughters of your people, by refusing to take a wife for yourself from among them. For in pride there is ruin and great confusion. And in idleness there is loss and dire poverty, because idleness is the mother of famine.
14 "Do not keep over until the next day the wages of those who work for you, but pay them at once. If you serve God you will receive payment. Watch yourself, my son, in everything you do, and discipline yourself in all your conduct.
15 And what you hate, do not do to anyone. Do not drink wine to excess or let drunkenness go with you on your way.
16 Give some of your food to the hungry, and some of your clothing to the naked. Give all your surplus as alms, and do not let your eye begrudge your giving of alms.
17 Place your bread on the grave of the righteous, but give none to sinners.
18 Seek advice from every wise person and do not despise any useful counsel.
19 At all times bless the Lord God, and ask him that your ways may be made straight and that all your paths and plans may prosper. For none of the nations has understanding, but the Lord himself will give them good counsel; but if he chooses otherwise, he casts down to deepest Hades. So now, my child, remember these commandments, and do not let them be erased from your heart.
20 "And now, my son, let me explain to you that I left ten talents of silver in trust with Gabael son of Gabrias, at Rages in Media.
21 Do not be afraid, my son, because we have become poor. You have great wealth if you fear God and flee from every sin and do what is good in the sight of the Lord your God." https://www.biblestudytools.com/nrsa/tobit/passage/?q=tobit+4:10-21 https://www.biblestudytools.com/rhe/tobit/4.html [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 06:12, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:Looks like Cons stepped in more doo-doo with his pro-Nazi, anti-Putin crusade against me. Can't say he wasn't warned to keep silent about things he doesn't understand. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]</sup> 11:32, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
== Korah in Numbers 16: The Biblical Type/Prefigurement of Martin Luther, with whom the God Who gave the Priesthood only to Moses was severely angry ==
"Korah, Dathan and Abiram
16 Korah son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and certain Reubenites—Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth—became insolent[a] 2 and rose up against Moses. With them were 250 Israelite men, well-known community leaders who had been appointed members of the council. 3 They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, “You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the Lord’s assembly?”
4 When Moses heard this, he fell facedown. 5 Then he said to Korah and all his followers: “In the morning the Lord will show who belongs to him and who is holy, and he will have that person come near him. The man he chooses he will cause to come near him. 6 You, Korah, and all your followers are to do this: Take censers 7 and tomorrow put burning coals and incense in them before the Lord. The man the Lord chooses will be the one who is holy. You Levites have gone too far!”
8 Moses also said to Korah, “Now listen, you Levites! 9 Isn’t it enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the rest of the Israelite community and brought you near himself to do the work at the Lord’s tabernacle and to stand before the community and minister to them? 10 He has brought you and all your fellow Levites near himself, but now you are trying to get the priesthood too. 11 It is against the Lord that you and all your followers have banded together. Who is Aaron that you should grumble against him?”
12 Then Moses summoned Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab. But they said, “We will not come! 13 Isn’t it enough that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the wilderness? And now you also want to lord it over us! 14 Moreover, you haven’t brought us into a land flowing with milk and honey or given us an inheritance of fields and vineyards. Do you want to treat these men like slaves[b]? No, we will not come!”
15 Then Moses became very angry and said to the Lord, “Do not accept their offering. I have not taken so much as a donkey from them, nor have I wronged any of them.”
16 Moses said to Korah, “You and all your followers are to appear before the Lord tomorrow—you and they and Aaron. 17 Each man is to take his censer and put incense in it—250 censers in all—and present it before the Lord. You and Aaron are to present your censers also.” 18 So each of them took his censer, put burning coals and incense in it, and stood with Moses and Aaron at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 19 When Korah had gathered all his followers in opposition to them at the entrance to the tent of meeting, the glory of the Lord appeared to the entire assembly. 20 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 21 “Separate yourselves from this assembly so I can put an end to them at once.”
22 But Moses and Aaron fell facedown and cried out, “O God, the God who gives breath to all living things, will you be angry with the entire assembly when only one man sins?”
23 Then the Lord said to Moses, 24 “Say to the assembly, ‘Move away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.’”
25 Moses got up and went to Dathan and Abiram, and the elders of Israel followed him. 26 He warned the assembly, “Move back from the tents of these wicked men! Do not touch anything belonging to them, or you will be swept away because of all their sins.” 27 So they moved away from the tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram. Dathan and Abiram had come out and were standing with their wives, children and little ones at the entrances to their tents.
28 Then Moses said, “This is how you will know that the Lord has sent me to do all these things and that it was not my idea: 29 If these men die a natural death and suffer the fate of all mankind, then the Lord has not sent me. 30 But if the Lord brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the realm of the dead, then you will know that these men have treated the Lord with contempt.”
31 As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them and their households, and all those associated with Korah, together with their possessions. 33 They went down alive into the realm of the dead, with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. 34 At their cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, “The earth is going to swallow us too!”
35 And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense.
36 The Lord said to Moses, 37 “Tell Eleazar son of Aaron, the priest, to remove the censers from the charred remains and scatter the coals some distance away, for the censers are holy— 38 the censers of the men who sinned at the cost of their lives. Hammer the censers into sheets to overlay the altar, for they were presented before the Lord and have become holy. Let them be a sign to the Israelites.”
39 So Eleazar the priest collected the bronze censers brought by those who had been burned to death, and he had them hammered out to overlay the altar, 40 as the Lord directed him through Moses. This was to remind the Israelites that no one except a descendant of Aaron should come to burn incense before the Lord, or he would become like Korah and his followers." [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]]<sup>[[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]]</sup> 17:26, August 1, 2023 (EDT)