Difference between revisions of "Talk:Margaret Thatcher"

Revision as of 19:01, March 16, 2007

Thatcher won elections as Prime Minister from 1979-1990, however, prior to her politcal career she performed in adult movies under the name of "Margaret Snatcher".' Next to Winston Churchill many consider Thatcher to be the most important British political leader of the twentieth century.

Goodness! Doesn't anyone do any checking?

--TK 19:39, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

You just did! Thanks. Cracker^talk 19:57, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

TK - I am confused as to why you have reverted my expansion of this article - whilst a firm supporter of most of Mrs Thatcher's reforms I do not feel an entry that does not mention the controversy caused in parts of the UK or the manner of her departure can be considered encyclopedic, since so much current British policy and policy in other countries with Thatcherite governments is still inspired by the reactions to the more unpopular policies of her final term of office? Tracy C Copeland 07:57, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

Agreed; there was nothing there I'd class as 'editorial.' I've restored your material. Tsumetai 08:00, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

• Material was reverted back, and edited again. You seem at odds with the Sysop, Aschlafly, and his instructions to me. --TK 20:31, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

"Alcoholism"

Just to clarify - I have mentioned her alcoholism whilst in office not out of prurience, but because it has a direct bearing on public perceptions of her in her final term. Her drink problem whilst in office is a matter of public record and I've cited reputable news sources as such. The citation to the left-wing "Class War" party is included not because I support them in any way but to illustrate the unusually high degree of polarisation she caused - no other Conservative leader, including Bush in the US, appears to have generated such hatred, as opposed to dislike and disagreement, from left wingers.Tracy C Copeland 08:26, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

• I received this response from the Sysop, Andrew: "So edit them, please. That's what wiki software is for. If you encounter a locked page, which I doubt for Margaret Thatcher, then the talk page is the appropriate place for your comments. Claims of alcoholism appear like gossip to me, by the way, which would be against our rules"--Aschlafly 20:14, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

I have not reverted TK's deletion of my edit on her alleged alcoholism but I disagree that it's gossip. Whether or not it was true, the fact that reputable news sources were claiming that she was an alcoholic (examples at [1], [2]) had a direct bearing on her sudden drop in support in her third term and the Conservative Party's removing her as leader, which in turn had major consequences for conservative politics worldwide. I feel that an article on Thatcher that does not mention her forced removal from office is like an article on Nixon or Clinton that failed to mention impeachment.

I am confused at TK's allegation that I "cited Wikipedia as a source" in this article - my edit contained three citations, one to the BBC, one to the Guardian newspaper and one to a left wing site, intended to illustrate the type of left-wing opposition to Thatcher and clearly marked as such. I also would like to point out to TK that I am not a 'disgruntled Scottish liberal' as he implies in his edit summaries - while I grew up in Norfolk, about as far from Scotland as it is possible to be in the UK, I now live and work in the US, and have never been 'a liberal' in the US sense of the word. In the British, libertarian sense of the word, then yes, I am a liberal but so I would guess are 90% of contributors here.Tracy C Copeland 06:51, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

• Tracy, although I might have mistook you for a Scottish liberal, I wasn't confusing your edits with those, in many places, by others...citing Wikipedia. Sorry if my posting of Andrew Schlafly's note about Wikipedia was taken as aimed at you. It certainly was not. I am however researching several sources to vet the alcoholism deal. Scotsman.com isn't actually what one would consider mainstream media, such as the London Times, is it? If you will email me, I can give you my IM and perhaps you could enlighten me more on this....sound fair? Please understand that a drink or five isn't exactly noteworthy where it concerns politicians, anywhere in the world, and I believe Sir Winston and President Roosevelt might have out-drank Lady Thatcher 3 to 1. and encyclopedia's the world over haven't deemed it germain to include in their pieces on them, other than a side-note. I cannot find anything concrete, from a reputable source that claims the main reason she was ousted was drinking. Thanks, my name is Terry, btw.......... --TK 07:13, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Wikipedia Citations/Sourcing

Since the Conservapedia is billed as an alternative to Wikipedia, which is deemed by the Founders as culturally, religiously and politically biased, why in God's name are editors using information from that source to substantiate their information/edits here?

Many of us start from the premise Wikipedia is a suspect source. Please find alternative source information, otherwise there isn't really a point to this "alternative" is there? I am seeing editing here that uses citations from the same author's work at Wikipedia, or quoting material not properly sourced on Wikipedia. That simply isn't an acceptable practice, and is intellectually dishonest.

--TK 19:29, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

• You're right. Wikipedia is NOT an acceptable source or authority. Please edit the offending pages and alert the contributors. The mistakes could have been innocent, of course.--Aschlafly 19:32, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

AustinM

Is there some reason that you failed to explain your wholesale removal of material here? When editing, removing, one is expected to leave notes. --TK 11:11, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

I agree - he has also deleted the entire entry for John Major, which I have reverted. Tracy C Copeland 12:27, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

suspected vandalism and spoof articles. I did search for references to alcoholism for thatcher and could not find any which were not from scurrilous left wing journals. As a matter of course I rv all edits by the user. I will ban if such behaviour continues. --AustinM 13:35, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

AustinM - I've provided 2 citations from major & reputable UK newspapers (The Scotsman and The Guardian) as examples. As I posted above when originally adding this paragraph it does not allege that Thatcher was an alcoholic but that mainstream UK news media were saying she was which had a direct bearing on the Conservative Party's decision to remove her from office. In light of your remarks about my 'vandalism', I see that you have replaced my lengthy entry on John Major - one of the longest serving Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century - with the single line "He achieved very little". Tracy C Copeland 15:01, 16 March 2007 (EDT)