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Debate: Did the Founding Fathers intend to apply their personal faith to the nation "As an institution"? (view source)
Revision as of 01:53, September 18, 2008
, 01:53, September 18, 2008→No, they did not intend to establish the U.S.A. as "One nation under God"
::::That refutation doesn't hold up for two reasons. First, the quote used from Adams is from a private letter to Jefferson, not an official government document. No one is debating the religious views of any specific founder, or that they expressed those views openly as individuals. Second, the defense that the U.S denied it's Christian nature for the sake of negotiating with Muslims states is not an effective one. No other official documents defining the government of the U.S. define it as a Christian nation, so if anything this is an affirmation of the secular nature of the U.S. government, not a denial of its Christian nature for the sake of convenience. Also, we would be a poor example of a "Christian Nation" if it was the policy of that nation to deny its Christian nature when it was convenient, instead of standing up for it on principle. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 14:41, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
::::That refutation doesn't hold up for two reasons. First, the quote used from Adams is from a private letter to Jefferson, not an official government document. No one is debating the religious views of any specific founder, or that they expressed those views openly as individuals. Second, the defense that the U.S denied it's Christian nature for the sake of negotiating with Muslims states is not an effective one. No other official documents defining the government of the U.S. define it as a Christian nation, so if anything this is an affirmation of the secular nature of the U.S. government, not a denial of its Christian nature for the sake of convenience. Also, we would be a poor example of a "Christian Nation" if it was the policy of that nation to deny its Christian nature when it was convenient, instead of standing up for it on principle. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 14:41, 13 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::That's a strange analogy. Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter as a private citizen to the Danbury Church, yet it is used continually as though it were official policy concerning the separation of church and state, yet the same priviledge seems to be denied to Adams here. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 02:12, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::That's a strange analogy. Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter as a private citizen to the Danbury Church, yet it is used continually as though it were official policy concerning the separation of church and state, yet the same priviledge seems to be denied to Adams here. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 02:12, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::Actually it's not that strange an analogy at all. I read up on the Danbury letter using the links on the [[Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists|article page]] here, and in the reference from the National Archives there's a nice bit of background. Jefferson wrote to the Church in the capacity of U.S. President, not as a private citizen, and was doing so in response to citizens asking if the First Amendment offered protections from the government imposing the views of one faith/denomination on others. The source even shows Jefferson's text from the working draft of his letter, and explains how his choice of words and the metaphor of a wall separating Church and State were chosen with care. In short, this was President who was intimately involved in the founding of the nation, writing deliberately to emphasize that while the founders were men of God, they founded an institution of government that was secular by intent. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 21:53, 17 September 2008 (EDT)