Talk:Counterexamples to Relativity

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Reversion explained

Paul Johnson, the renowned historian, explains the link -- and the significance of the link -- between relativity and moral relativism.--Andy Schlafly 20:57, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

Do you have a link for that? It seems pretty flimsy to me. --JMairs 21:10, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

Ah right, I found some stuff! It appears that Johnson acknowledged that there was no ACTUAL link between the two, but pointed out how many liberals CLAIM a link. That seems pretty close to what the article is saying, so my edit probably wasn't the best idea I've ever had, and as a bonus I've learned something interesting. Thanks for taking the time to explain rather than just blocking me :-S --JMairs 21:17, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

Have you read Tribe's article applying the curvature of space to support liberal views?--Andy Schlafly 21:19, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

No, I haven't. Is it easy to find? --JMairs 21:21, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

You can find it here [1] or a pdf here [2][3]. On a college campus, you might be able to get it here.[4] RSchlafly 00:04, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Relativity and Electromagnetism

It is often claimed that Relativity is proven by its ability to explain aspects of electromagnetism. But those aspects do not relate to physical mass, gravity or various frames of reference throughout the universe -- the basic claims of relativity.--Andy Schlafly 20:59, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

Lorentz used electromagnetic relativity to predict relativistic mass in 1899, and it was experimentally confirmed a couple of years later. Poincare used E=mc2 for radiation in 1900. So I think that electromagnetic aspects of relativity do relate to physical mass. They also relate to various frames of reference, as electromagnetic experiments were done at different times of the year to test different frames of reference in the Earth's orbit. Gravity and electromagnetism are separate forces, and I guess it is fair to say that relativistic aspects had to be tested separately. RSchlafly 00:04, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Most of the counterexamples to Relativity relate to gravity; some relate to the claim that all (non-accelerating) frames of reference are the same everywhere in the universe. The essence of Relativity is its claims about gravity and space. Electromagnetism experiments have nothing to do with this, and do not confirm any of these "grand unified" assertions of Relativity.--Andy Schlafly 00:12, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

You have to distinguish between general relativity, which is about gravity, and special relativity, which isn't.

Anyway, Newtonian mechanics is not consistent with Maxwell's equations while relativity (both special and general) is. Do you deny Maxwell's equations, Aschlafly? If you accept Newtonian mechanics, you have to. --MatthewQ 00:24, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Also, it should be noted that Einstein's famous 1905 paper (which was very important in the history of relativity) is entitled On The Electrodynamics Of Moving Bodies. --MatthewQ 00:30, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Again, a big part of the objection to Relativity is its "grand unified" approach. The insistence on that view is simply not scientific, and is contrary to the data.

There are different forces in nature. There really are, and they really are different. That's what the data show.

Special relativity is about velocities less than the speed of light. None of that exists in electromagnetism.--Andy Schlafly 00:32, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Special relativity is about velocities less than the speed of light -> No. Light travels the speed of light in special relativity. Any massless particle does as well.

None of that exists in electromagnetism -> A charged particle with a velocity less than the speed of light definitely falls under the domain of electromagnetism.

Again, Maxwell's equations and Newtonian mechanics are inconsistent. You can't have both. The fact that other forces exist is irrelevant. --MatthewQ 00:56, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Standard kilogrammes?

I'm not sure how good an argument this is. ONE out of a batch of 40 identical standard kilogrammes has diverged in weight from the others. Common sense says that there's something wrong with that one weight, which is after all stored in France. It's not likely that the answer has anything to do with relativity, which if correct would have caused an identical change in mass in all 40. --JMairs 21:06, 21 August 2011 (EDT)

I have a drawer full of socks. I cannot find a match for one of them. Can I blame relativity? RSchlafly 00:04, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Is it a French sock? --JMairs 08:14, 22 August 2011 (EDT)

Maybe so. Or from some other country where "kilogram" is spelled "kilogramme". RSchlafly 12:51, 22 August 2011 (EDT)