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Debate: Does the Magisterium have authority over the Bible, or does the Bible have authority over the Magisterium? (view source)

Revision as of 20:20, August 9, 2020

1,583 bytes added , 20:20, August 9, 2020

→‎Refutation: 1 Peter 1:13 and 2 Peter 1:20 do not support Roman Catholic Magisterium

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:::Wow. It was the Midianites who sold Joesph into slavery in Egypt, now on the reverse journey out of Egypt suddenly God is speaking through the mouth of a Midianite priest after which God commands

:::*'''Numbers 31:1-2, 7''' - ''And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people....And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]] 11:14, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

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::::Scripture does not say Jethro was among those slain. Moreover Jethro's descendants were included among the righteous people of Israel. Jethro's word is still true as the counsel of God. Balaam was a prophet of God who spoke true prophecy: Numbers 24. He was killed as a wicked prophet. His words are true. Moses was a murderer before he was called by God. He authored holy scripture. His words are true. Saul of Tarsus was a murderous persecutor of Christians and blasphemer, by his own admission. He authored holy scripture. His words are true. David sinned with Bathsheba and that brought a permanent curse on Israel: "''never shall the sword depart''". But David is a prophet of God. Acts 2:29-36. His Psalms are true. Caiaphas the high priest who condemned Jesus to death with the consent of the Sanhedrin supporting his judgment was a prophet. John 11:49-52. His word was true. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 16:20, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:Second question: When Sarah suggested to Abraham that perhaps God meant to fulfill his promise to Abraham by taking her handmaid Hagar, was that ordained by God? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]] 16:58, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

::Yes (or it would not have happened). God told Abraham to do what his wife said. Genesis 10:9; 21:12. --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 03:25, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:::*'''Genesis 17:19''' - ''God said, “No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him.''

:::You appear to be using God to justify sin. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]] 11:17, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

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::::It all happened according to the predetermined counsel and purpose and plan of God (or it would not have happened). That included the sin of putting Christ to death. Acts 2:23.

:Third question: Did God command David to build the Temple? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]] 17:01, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

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::::

::By Nathan the prophet God told David that his son "shall" build him a temple ("shall" is a command: "thou shalt..."). And David made all the preparations (1 Chronicles 28:11-10 "all this he made clear by the writing of the Lord concerning it" v.19). By Gad the prophet God told David to build an altar to the Lord on the threshing floor of Ornan/Araunah. He continued to offer sacrifices there. And it was there the temple was built. 2 Samuel 7:4, 12-13; 24:18, 25; 1 Chronicles 28:6, 20; 2 Chronicles 3:1 --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 03:25, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:::*'''2 Samuel 7:4-7''' - ''4 But that same night the word of the Lord came to Nathan, 5 “Go and tell my servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord: Would you build me a house to dwell in? 6 I have not lived in a house since the day I brought up the people of Israel from Egypt to this day, but I have been moving about in a tent for my dwelling. 7 In all places where I have moved with all the people of Israel, did I speak a word with any of the judges[a] of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd my people Israel, saying, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?”’''

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:All these actions were a bit presumptuous on the part of godly men, Moses, Abraham, and David. They were decisions made by men, acting in the flesh without the spirit of God. All had serious longterm consequences as the result of sin. Now we understand a bit more what Paul means by apt to teach, rightly dividing the word of truth. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]] 11:14, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

:I suppose under your teaching of scripture you could justify Moses striking the rock twice or David's sin with Bathsheba, as well. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]] 11:26, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

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::Look at the scriptures (below) on the authority of the church. Rhetorical question to consider: What church has been completely free of immoral sinners among its leaders, or free of immoral sinners within their congregations, or free of accusations of hypocrisy and scandals? --[[User:Dataclarifier|Dataclarifier]] ([[User talk:Dataclarifier|talk]]) 16:20, 9 August 2020 (EDT)

====Proofs that condemnations of Catholic doctrine are false====

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