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Debate: Have the gates of hell prevailed against the church Jesus founded on a rock, when He Himself said it could never happen? Did Christ who cannot lie fail to fulfill his promise? (view source)

Revision as of 18:29, August 27, 2020

5,199 bytes added , 18:29, August 27, 2020

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:::*''all who rely on works of the law are under a curse;''<ref>https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3%3A10-14&version=ESV</ref>

:::[[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|Trump 2Q2Q]] 13:38, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

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::::If the Christian is not under even the law of God the Christian is not obligated to obey even God. '''[[Antinomianism]]''' and '''[[Licentiousness]]'''. Paul denounced that monstrous lie. {{quotation|Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31}}{{quotation|What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Romans 6:1-2}}{{quotation|Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. Do not yield your members to sin as instruments of wickedness, but yield yourselves to God as men who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments of righteousness. Romans 6:12-13}}{{quotation|What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness. But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to '''the standard of teaching to which you were committed.''' Romans 6:15-18}}{{quotation|For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23}}So '''obedience''' leads to righteousness.{{quotation|For he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are factious and do not '''obey the truth''', but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Gentile, but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Gentile. For God shows no partiality.}}If as you say the Christian is not under even the law of God, then the Christian is not obligated to obey even God and is not obligated to obey the Bible the word of God, and we can freely do anything we please, even every kind of wickedness, because we are not under law and "there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus". But that is not the whole truth. For "in him is no sin". Paul said "every man" and that includes every Christian. Those who obey wickedness are not "in Christ"—"for those who are factious and do not '''obey the truth''', but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury." And those who disobey are severed from him and are not in Him. The Bible commands obedience for the sake of the Lord. You reject the obedience of righteousness unto life, the obedience of righteousness in seeking for glory and honor and immortality by works of doing good. Rejecting the grace of God to do good works is death. For the wages of sin is death. Christians are God's workmanship, '''created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.''' Ephesians 2:10. Therefore, what you propose is death. Not even obeying God. Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15; 15:10. When one came to him and asked what must he do to have '''eternal life''', Jesus said, "If you would enter '''life''', keep the commandments." Matthew 19:17b. John said, "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome." The ''Catechism of the Catholic Church'', with doctrine directly from the Bible, explains the keeping of the commandments. Jesus did not fail to keep his promise to lead us into all the truth for ever by the Holy Spirit of truth, and remain always to the end of the world. And the Bible tells us to obey the leaders of the church. You say to disobey the Catholic Church. That obedience is against the gospel of grace. The doctrine of disobedience and rebellion against the authority of the church Jesus built on a rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, is a doctrine not of God. You reject the grace bestowed on the Church, reject the grace of salvation through the Church, reject the grace of the sacraments He ordained to bestow grace unto salvation and the upbuilding of the church, reject the grace of senior leading elders and shepherds of the Church led into all the truth by the Spirit of truth, and reject the grace of being united to the Body and Blood of Christ in the Church he built on the rock of Peter and continued with, always, to the end of the world. Your "gospel of grace" is a false gospel of [[libertinism]] and [[licentiousness]] and [[antinomianism]], opposed to the word of Christ Jesus in his promise regarding the church he built, rooted in disobedience and contempt for authority established by God. It is the rebellion of Korah, Numbers 16 (see Jude 8-11), and the rebellion rooted in the first rebel who would not obey the authority of God, and fell, being cast out (Revelation 12:7-10). I will have nothing more to do with you (Titus 3:10-11) --[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 14:29, 27 August 2020 (EDT)

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