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Debate page is still locked to prevent editing. Note posted at [View source] states any edit proposed should be first discussed. O.K. I propose the following edit be added right after RobSmith's partial quotation of 1 Timothy 5:18 to "''not muzzle the ox''".  

Debate page is still locked to prevent editing. Note posted at [View source] states any edit proposed should be first discussed. O.K. I propose the following edit be added right after RobSmith's partial quotation of 1 Timothy 5:18 to "''not muzzle the ox''".  

:RobSmith characteristically misleads readers with comments that deflect from the point of the actual context of the reference being made, taking it out of context, in this case deflecting and implying as a mistaken typo the actual reference to 1&nbsp;Kings 11:12-13 that the kingdom was "''Torn away''". It says{{quotation|Yet for the sake of David your father I will not do it in your days, but I will '''tear it out''' of the hand of your son. However I will not '''tear away''' all the kingdom; but I will give one tribe to your son, for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen.<br>—RSVCE ("'''rend away'''" KJV)}}But RobSmith says "''Torn away''" must be a typo, that it says instead "turn away". The actual text of KJV verse 9 says "''because his heart was turned from''". While there are many different versions of the Bible, '''''none of them''''' says "turn away" in 1&nbsp;Kings 11:9-13.<br>And not only that, but RobSmith also claims to be a "preacher of the gospel" in accordance with Matthew 28:19, which in the context of the passage was addressed to "the eleven disciples" who were those remaining of the '''[[Twelve Apostles]]''' whom Christ had "ordained"/"appointed" and named as apostles. (Luke 22:29; 6:13). But he refuses to answer and say unequivocally that he is an accredited ordained preacher, making his claim doubtful at best. The term "preacher of the gospel" in the New Testament was applied only to those ordained as preachers of the gospel and like Paul ordained as apostles. {{quotation|'''1 Timothy 2:7''' Whereunto I am '''ordained''' a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, ''and'' lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.<br>—KJV}}{{quotation|'''2 Timothy 1:11''' Whereunto I am '''appointed''' a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.<br>—KJV}}I've already quoted other Bible passages from the New Testament about the apostles ordaining elders as preachers of the congregations in the book of Acts. Paul's additional reference to not muzzling the ox that treads out the grain is RobSmith's answer to the question "Are you an acknowledged ordained preacher?" That's RobSmith's evasive and slanted abuse of scripture ''taken entirely out of context'' as if it is referring to all of the responses of correction on these Debate pages as attempts to "muzzle" him, to "silence" him, to put forth grounds to discredit his right to insist on his own interpretations and applications of the Bible as from God having called him to preach and teach the word, quoting Matthew 28:19, and 1&nbsp;Timothy 5:18 "''you shall not muzzle the ox''". <br>In fact, St. Paul was citing that passage as applied to himself regarding his rights and the rights of ordained elders (''presbyteroi''/priests) to receive a salary or monetary support ("honor") as an ordained apostle and preacher of the gospel.{{quotation|'''2 Corinthians 11:8-9''' 8 I robbed other churches, taking wages ''of them', to do you service. 9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all ''things'' I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and ''so'' will I keep ''myself''.}}{{quotation|'''1 Timothy 5:17-18''' 17 Let the '''elders that rule well''' be counted worthy of double honour, especially '''they who labour in the word and doctrine'''. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer ''is'' worthy of his reward.<br>—KJV}}I really think this response edit must for the sake of truth be included on the Debate page, right after RobSmith's quote of 1&nbsp;Timothy 5:18a (his leaving out of v 15b), which he applies to himself in refusing to answer if he is an accredited ordained "preacher of the gospel". Given his past performance up to this day, I believe he will oppose including it, as an embarrassment to him for making false claims about himself. He has a right to '''[[Witnessing|witness]]''' to the gospel according to his own understanding, but no right to claim to be a "'''preacher of the gospel'''" if he hasn't been acknowledged by any church as "appointed and ordained" a preacher.  

:RobSmith characteristically misleads readers with comments that deflect from the point of the actual context of the reference being made, taking it out of context, in this case deflecting and implying as a mistaken typo the actual reference to 1&nbsp;Kings 11:12-13 that the kingdom was "''Torn away''". It says{{quotation|Yet for the sake of David your father I will not do it in your days, but I will '''tear it out''' of the hand of your son. However I will not '''tear away''' all the kingdom; but I will give one tribe to your son, for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen.<br>—RSVCE ("'''rend away'''" KJV)}}But RobSmith says "''Torn away''" must be a typo, that it says instead "turn away". The actual text of KJV verse 9 says "''because his heart was turned from''". While there are many different versions of the Bible, '''''none of them''''' says "turn away" in 1&nbsp;Kings 11:9-13.<br>And not only that, but RobSmith also claims to be a "preacher of the gospel" in accordance with Matthew 28:19, which in the context of the passage was addressed to "the eleven disciples" who were those remaining of the '''[[Twelve Apostles]]''' whom Christ had "ordained"/"appointed" and named as apostles. (Luke 22:29; 6:13). But he refuses to answer and say unequivocally that he is an accredited ordained preacher, making his claim doubtful at best. The term "preacher of the gospel" in the New Testament was applied only to those ordained as preachers of the gospel and like Paul ordained as apostles. {{quotation|'''1 Timothy 2:7''' Whereunto I am '''ordained''' a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, ''and'' lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.<br>—KJV}}{{quotation|'''2 Timothy 1:11''' Whereunto I am '''appointed''' a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.<br>—KJV}}I've already quoted other Bible passages from the New Testament about the apostles ordaining elders as preachers of the congregations in the book of Acts. Paul's additional reference to not muzzling the ox that treads out the grain is RobSmith's answer to the question "Are you an acknowledged ordained preacher?" That's RobSmith's evasive and slanted abuse of scripture ''taken entirely out of context'' as if it is referring to all of the responses of correction on these Debate pages as attempts to "muzzle" him, to "silence" him, to put forth grounds to discredit his right to insist on his own interpretations and applications of the Bible as from God having called him to preach and teach the word, quoting Matthew 28:19, and 1&nbsp;Timothy 5:18 "''you shall not muzzle the ox''". <br>In fact, St. Paul was citing that passage as applied to himself regarding his rights and the rights of ordained elders (''presbyteroi''/priests) to receive a salary or monetary support ("honor") as an ordained apostle and preacher of the gospel.{{quotation|'''2 Corinthians 11:8-9''' 8 I robbed other churches, taking wages ''of them'', to do you service. 9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all ''things'' I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and ''so'' will I keep ''myself''.}}{{quotation|'''1 Timothy 5:17-18''' 17 Let the '''elders that rule well''' be counted worthy of double honour, especially '''they who labour in the word and doctrine'''. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer ''is'' worthy of his reward.<br>—KJV}}{{quotation|'''1 Corinthians 9:6-18''' 6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working? 7 Who ever goes to war at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who tends a flock and does not drink of the milk of the flock?<br>8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.” Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. 11 If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things? 12 If others are partakers of this right over you, are we not even more?<br>Nevertheless we have not used this right, but endure all things lest we hinder the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who minister the holy things eat of the things of the temple, and those who serve at the altar partake of the offerings of the altar? 14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.<br>15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void. 16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel [a]of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.<br>—NKJV}}

I really think this response edit must for the sake of truth be included on the Debate page, right after RobSmith's quote of 1&nbsp;Timothy 5:18a (his leaving out of v 15b), which he applies to himself in refusing to answer if he is an accredited ordained "preacher of the gospel". Given his past performance up to this day, I believe he will oppose including it, as an embarrassment to him for making false claims about himself. He has a right to '''[[Witnessing|witness]]''' to the gospel according to his own understanding, but no right to claim to be a "'''preacher of the gospel'''" if he hasn't been acknowledged by any church as "appointed and ordained" a preacher.  

--[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 09:53, 4 September 2020 (EDT)

--[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 09:53, 4 September 2020 (EDT)