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Talk:Debate: Have the gates of hell prevailed against the church Jesus founded on a rock, when He Himself said it could never happen? Did Christ who cannot lie fail to fulfill his promise? (view source)
Revision as of 11:30, September 18, 2020
, 11:30, September 18, 2020→Back to the woman who repented and made reparation for having seduced a priest and lived with him in sin: new section
::::Comparing the Catholic Church to communist regimes still seems far-fetched.<br />—[[User:Liberaltears|Liberaltears]]<sup>'''''[[User:Liberaltears/mail|May D.C., his mother, and I.S. be all well!]]'''''</sup> Sunday, 20:23, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
::::Comparing the Catholic Church to communist regimes still seems far-fetched.<br />—[[User:Liberaltears|Liberaltears]]<sup>'''''[[User:Liberaltears/mail|May D.C., his mother, and I.S. be all well!]]'''''</sup> Sunday, 20:23, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::Not necessarily; both are systems of law that reject the grace of God. God says to Christian believers, ''ye are not under law but under grace'', and ''all who rely on law are under a curse''. Both the Catholic faith and communist ideology pointedly reject God's grace and choose to be under law and a curse. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Free Kyle!]]</sup> 20:58, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
:::::Not necessarily; both are systems of law that reject the grace of God. God says to Christian believers, ''ye are not under law but under grace'', and ''all who rely on law are under a curse''. Both the Catholic faith and communist ideology pointedly reject God's grace and choose to be under law and a curse. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Free Kyle!]]</sup> 20:58, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
== Back to the woman who repented and made reparation for having seduced a priest and lived with him in sin ==
'''RobSmith''', you said{{quotation|I have witnessed miracles of changed lives. The gangbangers, like me...}}The miracle of a changed life is visible to you. You see it by their new works,
*in their dramatic reversal from a life of sinning, to a life of goodness dedicated to Christ,
*in their making genuine reparation to him for having lived a life of violent sin, by their being sorry for their sins, and living a life of goodness instead,
*in their thanks to God for the gift of salvation they could not earn, and for saving them from hell, and final damnation.
In the same way, in the story about St. Francis, the woman who had seduced the priest, and previously lived with him in sin, in the same way showed the miracle of a changed life, like the story says{{quotation|and from that moment in sorrow for her sins turned her life over to Christ and lived apart, dedicating herself to a life of poverty and prayer for sinners in penance and fasting and chastity in reparation to Christ for her sins.}}Your taking issue with the fact that she lived a completely changed life dedicated to Christ alone in reparation to Him, and prayed for the conversion of sinners, is the same as taking issue with "'''''the gangbangers, like me'''''" (your words), who experienced the miracle of changed lives. They repented. They were genuinely sorry. They renounced their past. They made reparation to God by changing their lives. Same thing. No difference.
We are all sinners. Yet Christ can work through us, if we will. The Church is full of sinners. Yet Christ works through the Church. Because the Church is His body.
The Church is God's temple, built of living stones into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit, just like Paul and Peter both said. And it is the household of God, the pillar and foundation of the truth, as Paul says. It's the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, as Paul says. And judgment begins with the household of God, as Paul says. And even with that, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, as Jesus says, because the Spirit of truth He sent from the Father is leading the Church into all the truth for ever, as Jesus says. And Jesus Himself is with us and in the Church always, dwelling in the united members of His body, to the end of the world, to the end of time, just as Jesus says. He never guaranteed behavior. He guaranteed doctrine. He remains faithful even if we individually fail and fall into sin and turn away. God cannot lie. It's absolutely true that nothing outside of us can take us out of the Father's hand. But inside of us by ourselves we can separate ourselves from Him by committing mortal sin. Because in Him is no sin. We can always repent and come back and confess our sins and be reconciled. If we come to Him He will not cast us out.
It's Christ Jesus Who works the sacraments through sinners. Even if they're in a state of mortal sin. It's Christ Jesus who preaches the truth through the lips of sinners. It's Christ Jesus Who Mediates through the ministry of the priest. It's Christ Jesus who publishes the Bible and the Catechism. It's Christ Jesus Who exercises the ministry of mercy to the sick and imprisoned. It's Christ Jesus Who sanctifies marriage, keeps spouses faithful to each other, and raises children in the Lord. It's Christ Jesus Who exercises self-control and chastity in single men and women who struggle to keep faith with Him by offering their bodies as living sacrifices to God in moral purity as their reasonable worship. It's Christ Jesus Who gives Himself in lives dedicated solely to God without the entangling distraction of worldly attachments of marriage and property for the sake of healing, helping and saving others. Without Him we can do nothing. He does the works.{{quotation|For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of ''his'' good pleasure. Philippians 2:13}}{{quotation|For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: ''it is'' the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boase. For we are his workmanship, '''created in Christ Jesus unto <big><big>good works</big></big>''', which God hath before ordained '''that we should walk in them'''. Ephesians 2:8-9}}--[[User:IndependentSkeptic|IndependentSkeptic]] ([[User talk:IndependentSkeptic|talk]]) 07:30, 18 September 2020 (EDT)