Changes

Public schools are not atheistic institutions. Just because they obey the constitution and don't promote prayer, it doesn't make them atheistic. In addition, they don't promote atheism at all, they merely don't promote religion. If no one minds, I'll remove the first section from the article.--[[User:Blinkadyblink|Blinkadyblink]] 19:17, 7 December 2007 (EST)

::My high school had agnostic students--thought they were atheist--with many Christian/Catholic teachers. +_+ _{always tired} [[User:Kektklik|Kektk]] 14:03, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

::::Mr Schlafly: It is one thing to assert something and another to actually provide a reference. Is there any chance you could provide a valid reference that states American public schools are atheistic? In my daughter's school, students are allowed to pray during class hours, moral values are taught and emphasized during civics and other classes, and she has never seen anyone punished for praying. The atheist tag you are placing on this article wouldn't be constantly challenged if you could provide a solid reference. --[[User:Jimmy|Jimmy]] 16:09, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

::::::Mr. Schlafly: Please reference my last comment. There is obviously prayer allowed and morals taught at my daughter's PUBLIC SCHOOL which is in AMERICA so you are wrong about asserting, without evidence, that prayer in public schools is prohibited in America. And yes, your assertion needs a reference because it flies in the face of every statement issued by the Clinton and Bush administrations concerning prayer in public schools. This is even mentioned in the article. I even posted other evidence concerning the opinions of many civil liberties groups and their support of the constitutional right of students to pray in public school but you declared that edit was 'liberal' and deleted it. Now if you want to insist that both Clinton and Bush are completely wrong and the advice they got from their legal advisors is completely without merit, please post a valid reference that disputes the opinions of our country's leaders and legal experts. I don't have the slightest clue where I would find a reference that supports what you are claiming or I would gladly assist. Please provide the reference to your assertion so we can all lay this matter to rest. --[[User:Jimmy|Jimmy]] 17:50, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

This article states that public schools are "atheistic," and atheism is defined by this encyclopedia as the denial of the existence of God. I don't mean to get overly technical here, but it seems illogical that a broadly defined institution such as American public schools could be said to deny the existence of God, unless there has been some statement (or a rash of statements) that I am not aware of (and is not cited) on behalf of public schools specifically denying that God exists. The thrust of this article seems to be not that public schools are atheistic but that they are Godless institutions, lacking in the moral fundamentals of religion and defining themselves as expressly secular. Therefore, I am changing "atheistic" to "Godless" in the header. [[User:Kristkrispies|Kristkrispies]] 12:43, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::I suppose you're right, although "secular" is often used to mean "exclusive of religion." Yes, "Godless" is a pejorative, but so is "atheistic," as least as it is defined in this encyclopedia. I also contest that evolution is an (exclusively) atheistic ideology, as many scientists who believe in evolution are theists. Finally, do you have any citations to support the fact that public schools specifically deny the existence of God, or are you using "atheistic" more as a catch-all to describe the godless mindset in general (and, if so, I'd like a better definition of the term). [[User:Kristkrispies|Kristkrispies]] 13:34, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::: As usual, I hate to differ with you, but 'I' just checked Merriam-Webster, and the first two definitions say "non-religious." [[User:Kristkrispies|Kristkrispies]] 20:01, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

I just thought I would chime in here. I currently attend a public school, and they aren't atheistic. We have a world religions class, there is a religion diversity mural painted on one wall of the school, and lastly, in te library, there is a whole religion section with only one atheist book, which is only about 100 pages long.

I would like to see evidence for the assertion that public schools are atheistic and spoken prayer is forbidden in the classroom. The idea that this should be present without a reference goes against the standards of this encyclopedia.--Jimmy 13:56, 1 January 2008 (EST)

:Then go ahead and help find it. If I can find such references within the time it takes you to complain about the lack of them, then you can find them as well and help contribute to the building of this encyclopedia. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:06, 1 January 2008 (EST)

:::::::Um, last time I checked, only teacher led/mandatory prayer in schools was banned. Students/Teachers can pray, however, they can't be disruptive to the class or make others pray that don't want to. Anyways, then there is the matter of which religion's prayers/worship style should be used. That would show favoritism to one religion and annoy other people who get offended. This leads to either having the class do prayers, etc.. of every religion or not having any prayer mandatory. The first option is infeasible because it would detract from time that could be used to learn subject material. So that is why teacher led/mandatory prayer isn't allowed in public schools. Willing individuals can pray together, however it must not be a distraction to a class. This is my two cents.[[User:JudgeKing|JudgeKing]] 13:00, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Mr. Schlafly:

::Look at the edits I made earlier that were reverted. Notice how many times 'atheistic' was replaced with 'secular' before it wasn't reverted. A list showing a broad coalition of civil liberties groups supporting public school prayer was removed for being 'liberal'. I've had no luck removing the 'disclaimer' about prominent Americans being educated in public schools. It still states prayer is banned and no 'prominent Americans' have been educated in public schools even though I have demonstrated otherwise. I've made continuous requests for references to support the opinions expressed in the second sentence of this article only to be ignored and threatened. Will you offer any assurance that what I write will not be summarily dismissed? I'd hate to waste my time.--Jimmy 00:07, 6 January 2008 (EST)

==Political Correctness as a Hindering Factor==

It's frequently noted that private schools tend to do better than public schools, and that other countries (India, China, and so forth) are turning out more and better-equipped scientists and engineers than America at present.

Apologies for the rant, but as a teacher in a public school myself, I'm frequently frustrated by having my hands tied. --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 20:30, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

==Atheistic and secular==

The secularism of the US public schools promotes atheism. Let's not pretend otherwise. [[User:Human]], you do indeed [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Public_schools&diff=prev&oldid=507180 risk your editing rights] to assert otherwise.

::Late comment: I'd prefer the term "nontheistic." "Atheistic" implies explicit denial of the existence of a higher being; "nontheistic" implies that the schools just don't address the concept. -[[User:CSGuy|CSGuy]] 14:59, 16 November 2008 (EST)

There are ''so'' many things wrong with the section on famous Americans who have attended public school. How do you define "attended": is it graduates only, or those who have spent even a day in a public institution? How do you define "prominent American"? Politicians, musicians, artists, owners of large corporations, athletes, who counts? Also, note that the list would probably require several hundred pages, considering that virtually ever American who has a graduate-level education (GED-worthy) attended a public school, including a vast, vast majority of Americans that would be considered "prominent." And what's up with that statistic that claims that fewer prominent Americans have come out of the public school system since prayer was banned? There is absolutely no way that a claim like that can be tested, measured, or even looked at in a serious light. I vote to delete the section entirely. And mind you I have many, many friends who graduated from the public school system who are doing just fine, which is remarkable considering that I live in Los Angeles, which has one of the highest dropout rates in the country. I remember my mother still works at a particularly prominent school in Hollywood, and at the end of each year she takes several students who graduated out to lunch to congratulate them because it's such an achievement at some schools in the city. I don't think that has anything to do with prayer though (religious children fail to graduate just as often as secular ones). -[[User:Ilikecake|Ilikecake]] 17:04, 11 November 2008 (EST)

::If you already believe something will be reverted when you begin to edit, that is a good indicator not to do so. Also please remember to sign your posts. --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>_/Admin^{[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]} 21:59, 25 February 2010 (EST)

*A few comments on the recently-added statistics:

:*Illegal drugs: The survey that statistic comes from includes both public and private schools. (See [http://monitoringthefuture.org/purpose.html])

:::::Because I don't challenge all of the statistics, my criticisms can't be taken seriously? Also, note that all I deny is that you are correctly interpreting the statistics. Finally, you still haven't responded to my comments regarding the samples. -[[User:CSGuy|CSGuy]] 21:34, 21 December 2008 (EST)

Why did you insert that 77% statistic into the [[public school]] article? The article provided did not say that statistic. Where is your proof?

--[[User:Metzky|Metzky]] 20:42, 2 January 2009 (EST)

==Textbook CBN story==

This might fit in here or some other article as an external link.

: Great point. Please add to this entry where you think best. Thanks and Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:08, 22 August 2009 (EDT)

Generally the statistics given are a good picture of public schools all over America. What is to be gained by parsing the language to weaken the statement, obfuscate it, to make it appear they have better results than they do? Oh, wait, I forgot that liberals want to hide from obvious truths! Public schools are mostly cesspools. That a precious few excel doesn't alter reality. --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>_/Admin^{[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]} 17:13, 1 June 2010 (EDT)

If the statistic that 10% of public school girls get pregnant is true, it's a very powerful statement about public schools. The source given doesn't include this fact, though. Pregnancy rates are deplorably high in public schools, but I can't find any sources that put the number as high as 10%. I need help finding a source on this. [[User:ChrisGT90|ChrisGT90]] 21:56, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

:I'm getting some conflicting data on this as well. [http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf This] (PDF file) states that in 2006, the teen pregnancy rate for ALL women was 71.5 in 1,000 (~7.2%). However, [http://www.livestrong.com/article/12504-teen-pregnancy-rates-usa/ This] article states that 1/3 of girls get pregnant before the age of 20. If the latter is the case, I would say that 10% pregnancy rate is an ''under-estimation'' given that most children are in the public school system. I'm still searching, though ... -- [[User:JLauttamus|Jeff W. Lauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|_Discussion]] 22:09, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::If no source has been provided to back up this statistic, I'll remove it on June 24th. (Two weeks after this issue was raised.) [[User:ChrisGT90|ChrisGT90]] 22:55, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

I found a rather major and embarrassing error in the opening lines. The list of statistics are said to be "characteristics of public schools" when they are in fact describing their students. I edited the heading sentence before the list to reflect this, but my edits were reversed, because "the public schools create the students." I agree that we do need to find a way to emphasize this, but the error still needs removal. Any suggestions on how to accomplish both goals while keeping everyone happy? [[User:JimAB|JimAB]] 21:19, 27 March 2011 (EDT)

::::Thanks, AE. [[User:JimAB|JimAB]] 22:19, 9 April 2011 (EDT)

60% of students in one region watch more than 3 hours of TV vs. 35% nation wide. Since that national population with 35% over the line is 90% public school students I think that it's safe to say the 60% number has a lot more to do with the region than public schools. --[[User:AlaskanEconomy|AlaskanEconomy]] 17:36, 9 April 2011 (EDT)

==George Orwell's account of Public Schools in England==

* These are not public 'national schools', but something quite the opposite: exclusive and expensive residential secondary schools, scattered far apart. Until recently they admitted almost no one but the sons of rich aristocratic families. It was the dream of nouveau riche bankers of the nineteenth century to push their sons into a Public School. At such schools the greatest stress is laid on sport, which forms, so to speak, a lordly, tough and gentlemanly outlook. Among these schools, Eton is particularly famous. Wellington is reported to have said that the victory of Waterloo was decided on the playing fields of Eton. It is not so very long ago that an overwhelming majority of the people who in one way or another ruled England came from the Public School. [http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/articles/ukrainian-af-pref.htm]

==Picture of school with security cameras==

I have a bit of an issue with the picture at the top of the article. It is of Charlotte High School in Punta Gorda, FL. I happened to graduate from this high school two years ago. The original school was destroyed by Hurricane Charley and the new school was rebuilt with all of the cameras. There were hardly any problems with violence or vandalism (unless you consider leaving lunch trays on the table vandalism). In fact, the school's academic team consistently defeated the area's best private schools' teams. Not only is the school a bad example of the bad things about public schools, it is a terrific example of some of the best accomplishments of public schools.--[[User:BubbaRomney|BubbaRomney]] 21:50, 18 June 2012 (EDT)

:I have no idea who you are, but that's not how I remember the kids at that school; I graduated from Punta Gorda Middle School in 2006 (probably the same year you did, whoever you are) and school choiced into the Port Charlotte school because of the violence and drama at the Punta Gorda one. Of course, no one ever said that CHS is the worst school in the world or anything, just saying that public schools are becoming more and more violent every year. Welcome to Conservapedia! [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 15:36, 19 June 2012 (EDT)

(moved from entry re: 4-day week) This above paragraph is not completely true, as, at least in Missouri, there are classes taught by teachers five days a week, and between 7 and 8 hours a day. <small>unsigned</small>