Talk:Evidence of evolution
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Able806 (talk | contribs) at 19:54, January 9, 2009. It may differ significantly from current revision.
I'd like to know, once and for all, whether the peppered moth is considered evidence for evolution. If it's not evidence but "just an example", then what is it an example of?
Jon Wells says, "When asked to list the evidence for Darwinian evolution, most people--including most biologists" give the peppered moth as an example. I've asked at Wikipedia whether what this means. I hope my stalkers don't dismiss the question simply because I cross-posted it. If the moth's change in distribution of light and dark varieties is cited by scientists (or at lease educatiors) as evidence of evolution, then I will include it in CP's evidence of evolution article. If not, I won't; it's that simple. --Ed Poor Talk 13:45, 9 January 2009 (EST)
- First I would like to point out that I really dislike the use of the peppered moth as an example. The question that has to be asked first is what do you define as evolution? If it is a phenotype change in a population then yes, the peppered moth is an example. If it is speciation then no, the peppered moth is not an example. Some creationists will accept the peppered moth as an example of microevolution. I personally would use the Nylon-eating bacteria as an example.--Able806 14:08, 9 January 2009 (EST)
- Well, that's my point: Are evolution educators using a good example of evolution as "evidence for evolution" or not? I'm trying to settle the matter of whether the best known of the Icons of Evolution is a valid example of bias. I figure either:
- No one uses the moth as "proof" of evolution - so Wells has no case here; or,
- Only a few educators or scientists use the moth as proof of evolution - so Wells is making a mountain out of a molehill; or,
- This is one of the ten most common "proofs" of evolution - so it matters whether the example is proving anything or not.
- If both varieties existed before the soot pollution, then how is it an example of microevolution? I thought "evolution through natural selection" refers only to new forms of life being caused to come into existence.
- Very good points. I often remember the fact that most high school biology teachers either minored in biology in college or they had a couple of bioclasses with their masters. In either case their exposure to evolutionary theory is very limited and I would not refer to them as evolution educators. I know for a fact that the Peppered Moth is not used as an example in most college bio-major classes, due to better and more current examples. The use of the Peppered Moth may just "date" the instructor, lol. I would say that Wells is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
- As for your last question "does "evolution" sometimes also mean "changes in distribution of existing organisms"?" yes it does. This is one of the driving forces in evolution as population distribution directly effects gene dispersion. Both varieties of moth did exist before the soot pollution, if anything the peppered moth example shows population shift due to natural selection (moths easier to see).--Able806 14:54, 9 January 2009 (EST)