Changes

Talk:Biblical scientific foreknowledge (view source)

Revision as of 14:24, March 10, 2016

2,556 bytes added , 14:24, March 10, 2016

@Aschlafly, VargasMilan

Line 307: Line 307:

Ignorance is not always bliss, sometimes it makes you just looking stupid! --[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 16:55, 9 March 2016 (EST)

+

== Calming the Storm ==

+

Andy wants us to believe that it was the observation of the storm which calmed it, and that Jesus didn't speak. He writes:

+

{{cquote|A storm developed over the water while Jesus slept (i.e., chaos develops when God is not observing), and it was Jesus' awaking to observe it that calmed the storm. This famous [[Essay:Calming the Storm|calming of the storm]] is typically translated as the result of a "rebuke" by [[Jesus]] of the bad weather. But a closer look at the Greek reveals that the key term means "judge" rather than "rebuke", and thus it was the act of Jesus observing the chaos that caused it to "collapse" into an orderly state, similar to the effect of observing a wave function.}}

+

and at [[Essay:Calming the Storm]] he says:

+

{{cquote|In the Mark verse above, traditional translations insert the word "said" as though Jesus caused the calming by verbally ordering the sea to be still. But "λέγω" -- the Greek term used for said in some versions -- does not appear in the Greek above, and where it does appear in Greek versions its real meaning is to "lay", to "cause to lie down," or to "put to sleep." It only has a connotation of speaking when used in a context of verbal communication (as in putting one word with another), '''which is not the case here'''. }}

+

Unfortunately, this is just wrong. Mark's verse contains the words:

+

*εἶπεν is a conjugate form of λέγω, in fact, it is 3rd person singular aorist active indicative. The obvious translation is "He said", or "He commanded". But perhaps He spoke to Himself?

+

*No, He didn't: He addressed the sea (θάλασσα) directly, indicated by τῇ θαλάσσῃ, the dative of this feminine noun. But perhaps it was a silent exchange?

+

*No, it wasn't: Σιώπα, πεφίμωσο is a command, imperative versions of the words Σιώπα ("silence") and φιμόω ("to muzzle"). This is direct speech: Σιώπα means "Silence!" and "πεφίμωσο" means "Be muzzled!"

+

Putting this all together we get:

+

Andy's most basic mistake is that he didn't spot that εἶπεν is a form of the verb λέγω. Additionally, he didn't recognize the imperatives Σιώπα and πεφίμωσο. Or the dative, of θάλασσα... You have to make rookie mistakes in just five words to get read of the ''connotation of speaking''...

+

--[[User:AugustO|AugustO]] ([[User talk:AugustO|talk]]) 09:24, 10 March 2016 (EST)

AugustO

Block, SkipCaptcha, Automoderated users, edit, rollback

5,023

edits